3 ms·

Late reply, but -- My point is that what makes the colony distinct from the pile is the chemicals, genomic structure, etc that the ants share and are in their

Late reply, but -- My point is that what makes the colony distinct from the pile is the chemicals, genomic structure, etc that the ants share and are in their environment -- things which all themselves are quite physical. That collection of shared structure between the ants and environmental factors creates a system distinct but made from the ants. Corporations have similar physical components that their constituent humans interact with. It seems to be begging the question to assume that humans require imagining the corporation but ants do not need to imagine the colony -- it's simply a dynamic system/entity in its own right that happens to have constituent "ants". (Similar in nature to the relationship between cells and animals.)

jo909 9y ago
Everything at some point has a physical manifestation that can be broken down further and further until we explain things with (according to many physicists) strings. Every thought, idea, dream or lie could be described as neurotransmitters moving between neurons, but that's very rarely the level of detail we use. Yes, corporations have physical manifestations. And if we use a formal or legal definition, you could maybe break that down to some database entry at some government branch or paperwork in a cabinet etc. Very real and physical. But then I could hack the database and insert a new company and fake the paperwork, and arguably the result is not a real company. Or delete a real company and destroy the paperwork, but arguably the company will still exist. If we imagine I could create or delete a company perfectly in all its physical aspects, documents, electronic records, inventory, products etc - but not modify anybodies thoughts or memories -, you would be very clearly be able to tell if the company is "real" or not. If nobody knows about it ("believes" it exists) and nobody works for it, it's not real. The office, machines, computers and a bunch of (fake) employment contracts do not result in anything if nobody shows up. If everybody still believes it exists and just continues to work, they might need a few new staplers and other things, and at some point get the paperwork corrected.

jo909 9y ago

Everything at some point has a physical manifestation that can be broken down further and further until we explain things with (according to many physicists) strings. Every thought, idea, dream or lie could be described as neurotransmitters moving between neurons, but that's very rarely the level of detail we use. Yes, corporations have physical manifestations. And if we use a formal or legal definition, you could maybe break that down to some database entry at some government branch or paperwork in a cabinet etc. Very real and physical. But then I could hack the database and insert a new company and fake the paperwork, and arguably the result is not a real company. Or delete a real company and destroy the paperwork, but arguably the company will still exist. If we imagine I could create or delete a company perfectly in all its physical aspects, documents, electronic records, inventory, products etc - but not modify anybodies thoughts or memories -, you would be very clearly be able to tell if the company is "real" or not. If nobody knows about it ("believes" it exists) and nobody works for it, it's not real. The office, machines, computers and a bunch of (fake) employment contracts do not result in anything if nobody shows up. If everybody still believes it exists and just continues to work, they might need a few new staplers and other things, and at some point get the paperwork corrected.