3 ms·
> This means you're not experienced enough with redux to be making those choices This is the fundamental problem. In order to learn Redux, you need experience
by strken 9y ago
> This means you're not experienced enough with redux to be making those choices
This is the fundamental problem. In order to learn Redux, you need experience with it. In order to get experience, you need to work with Redux. In order to work with Redux, you need to learn it.
You use the example of Rails, but Rails is the poster child of opinionated frameworks. For someone trying to learn it, there's no ambiguity about how a project is structured. The same is true of Unity or the UDK: there's a single tech choice to make, after which you can rely on the framework to guide you.
I understand that the js community prefers small composable libraries, and agree with the reasoning, but with Redux this is taken to extremes: a tiny core library, documentation that's mostly boilerplate, and much greater cognitive overhead than any other state management.
- acemarke 9y agoI opened up an issue earlier this year to discuss possible ways to improve the experience for new Redux users, and additional useful abstractions that could be built on top of Redux: https://github.com/reactjs/redux/issues/2295 https://github.com/reactjs/redux/issues/2295 . If you've got feedback or comments, I'd encourage you to contribute them to that discussion. Also, as unofficial keeper of the Redux docs, I'd also appreciate any suggestions for improving them. Can you clarify what you mean by "documentation that's mostly boilerplate? If you're looking for more of an "integrated" Redux experience, you might want to look at https://kea.js.org/ https://kea.js.org/ .
- strken 9y agoI'm actually already using Kea. Thanks for the suggestion, it's an awesome project! By boilerplate I mean that the docs are written using examples of e.g. a single network request and a handful of actions, where even a small application with a few repeated bits of code would introduce abstractions for common elements. Because the docs lay out the simplest possible way to do this, they don't fully represent a real app, and because the ecosystem is so vast, it's not obvious which abstractions are state-of-the-art. Filling in the "next steps" tab with some hints about where to go would probably help a lot.
- acemarke 9y agoHuh. Indeed, that "Next Steps" page never has been created. That's an excellent suggestion, thank you. I just opened up https://github.com/reactjs/redux/issues/2626 https://github.com/reactjs/redux/issues/2626 to cover adding that docs page. If you or anyone else reading would like to contribute writing that page, please leave a comment and let me know! And yes, it's always tough to balance the various audiences and use cases when writing docs. Minimal examples like a TodoMVC can be helpful for showing off basic concepts and keeping a learner from getting too lost, but then those don't cover the complexities of a real-world app.
- acemarke 9y agoActually have a request for you, now that I think of it. Like most of the addons I've catalogued, I haven't had a chance to play with Kea myself. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how useful it is, how it compares to using "plain" Redux, and so on. Please leave a comment here, or catch me on Reactiflux.
- mariusandra 9y agoHey, author of Kea here. I'm always very interested in feedback as well! :) So strken, acemarke and others: Feel free to reply here, contact me on reactiflux (@mariusandra) or shoot me an e-mail if you feel like talking about Kea. Cheers and thanks for all the nice words so far. :)
- strken 9y agoI might do a write-up of implementing the same app in Kea and vanilla Redux, and if I do I'll get in touch with you on Reactiflux. Thanks for engaging in such a positive way with the community!
- acemarke 9y agoCool, look forward to it, and definitely ping me when you've got it ready. And you're welcome! I probably spend a bit too much more time answering questions than I really should, but hopefully it's helpful :)