6 ms·

How money restricts life's pleasures

46 points by j_baker 16y ago

BigZaphod 16y ago
I hate money, but it'd be nice to have more of it.
- peterwwillis 16y ago
  it'd be nice to have more of something you hate? this paradox is troubling. perhaps you should learn to love money, or learn to want/need less of it? examples: don't own an expensive mode of transportation, don't eat out, downsize your living arrangements.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  > I hate money Money is means of exchange, you get in return for doing things. There's dishonest ways to get it (violence, fraud) - but outside of those, money is just a ticket that says "you contributed this value, as measured by the person who gave the ticket to you" - contribute immensely more value than you receive and you'll love money and be happy with it. My wealthiest friends are honest wealthy people, who got their money as architects, doing shipping, surveying, building mines, coding, entrepreneurship, development, etc - creating value. They all contribute immensely more value than they receive in return - my best friend made $800,000 in his best year, but he facilitated about $100,000,000 of business while over-delivering across the board. When you're receiving .8% of the value you're helping build, you can be proud that you did so much and received such a small amount of it - while getting rich at the same time. Contribute much more than you receive in return, contribute a lot, receive a lot. Money isn't perfect, but it's a positive thing overall and not worth hating if you get it honestly.
keefe 16y ago
it's amazing how you never hear anybody who grew up poor talking about how money doesn't buy you happiness.
- Eight 16y ago
  Not really, it can buy you comfort - but that is not really what this article seems to be aiming at.
  - keefe 16y ago
    and safety. mmmmm safety.
- mikepurvis 16y ago
  Really? I would argue quite the opposite. Obviously anecdotes mean little, but I can definitely think of examples from my own life of those who enjoy a sense of pride in _not_ having to spend money to increase their own happiness (or not spend as much as they perceive others find necessary). My own parents, for example, have much happiness and not a huge amount of money. And I don't honestly think that having it would really make them that much happier.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  Don't you? http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/10/money-cant-buy-happiness-so-man-gives-away-every-penny-of-his-3-million-fortune/ http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/10/money-cant-buy-happiness...
  - DilipJ 16y ago
    "The idea that money doesn’t make you happy is a lie spread by rich people so that the poor people don’t kill them." -Michael Caine
    - username3 16y ago
      And the idea that money does make you happy is a lie spread by rich people so that the rich people don't kill themselves?
  - keefe 16y ago
    after much contemplation, I have decided money can buy happiness but not sanity.
sorbus 16y ago
So if you think about money, you enjoy chocolate less and you eat it faster, or at least so the second study mentioned says. An alternative theory: people, when confronted with money, realize that they will not be able to enjoy more chocolate, due to the cost, and therefor rate it as being less enjoyable as a defense mechanism, to avoid the fact that they want more. They also eat it faster because they're worried that the researchers will make them pay for it. On a slightly more logical note ... all this shows is that thinking about money reduces enjoyment of things. Presumably, richer people are able to get things without thinking about the cost, and hence money. It would be interesting to do the same study on the rich and privileged, and see both if their average enjoyment of chocolate is lower, and if it gets even lower when they're thinking about money. Until that's done, it seems a bit extreme to say that this proves anything (except, perhaps, that worrying about money reduces enjoyment of chocolate, but I don't know if any of the subjects considered themselves rich, and how their results differed, if at all, so I can't even conclude that).
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  I would love to see that study that contrasts the effect of money attitudes. In my personal experience, at least, there's a huge difference between people's attitudes - even at equivalent means. By most people's standards, I'm rich. I don't think I'm rich, but I'm not attached to the money I have, or afraid of losing it, because I know that I can lose everything tomorrow and work my way back to my position in a year. (Because I've done it!) On the other hand, I have friends who have as much money as me, or more, but who agonize over every little thing. I would love to see if there's a scientifically provable difference between us, or if it's just my perception. That would lead to the question of, can healthier attitudes about money be taught? Which is something of personal interest.
bryanlarsen 16y ago
It's a nice trope, but the "money can't buy happiness" myth has been well debunked. Here's just one source, there are many more: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet
- wazoox 16y ago
  It's not so much that money buys happiness, than lack of money that makes you miserable. When you have enough (60000$/year apparently), having more doesn't enhance your happiness. See this interesting TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper...
  - liedra 16y ago
    This completely gels with my experience. I like having enough money to live on comfortably: have a place that's just big enough, have money to eat out (not too expensively) when I feel like it, have enough to do something special occasionally, have enough to buy the sorts of foods I like (slightly more expensive locally produced foods, I'm a big fan of local production), have enough to buy some gadget or other if I save up for a bit. For me it's partly the saving up and appreciation of the expensive things that gives me happiness :) I make about 55k a year, and it's enough for me. Any more and I'd stop appreciating what now takes a bit of time to save up for. :) (though I wouldn't say no to a one off cash injection for a really nice sporty weekender car ;)
  - bryanlarsen 16y ago
    No, that's the part that's been debunked. Look at the graph in my link: the biggest jump in happiness is from 75-100K to 100K+. The correlation isn't high: there are lots of unhappy rich people, and lots of happy poor people, but the correlation is statistically significant.
mathgladiator 16y ago
When I went homeless living on the campus (in the CS building), I discovered two things. 1) the time to get all my work done which enabled me to actually enjoy the gardens and the park benches on campus 2) I was happy The key to being happy isn't money, but having more time. After all, time is all we really have.
- Ardit20 16y ago
  and to be able to have plenty of time you need to make some millions so you do not have to work.
  - mathgladiator 16y ago
    Or learn to live with a lot less. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
    - elptacek 16y ago
      That's really tough to sell to your kids.
csomar 16y ago
As I grew up and discovered our society (third world country, somewhere in Africa), I found out that money plays a critical part of our ecosystem. People here like to show to other people that they have a lot of money and the best life they can ever get: Luxurious car, fancy mobile phone, expensive clothes... Many people are spending for the exterior, more than the interior. It means that their life, is kinda fuc*ing, but they have a great car, mobile phone and they are prestigious in the society. The only thing they care about is their position and prestige in the society. They sacrifice money and comfort for it. Since money is power and can bring prestige, and prestige is what people are looking for and think is "the best life" or "the life of superior", then money means happiness.
Setsuna 16y ago
>Money restricts us from enjoying simple pleasures in life We can easily choose to ignore money and enjoy the simple pleasures.
tomjen3 16y ago
I am by no means rich, but the thing that nags me with all of this is that they seem to assume that getting rich is so you can buy expensive automobiles, huge houses (granted, I would properly buy a good car and a large house if I could) and that this alone will bring you happiness, but this seems an awfully shallow look at things. I can't stop to wonder if one wouldn't be happier if you had a large house and a nice car but used them as a means to an end (eg a large house so that you always had space for guests, maid service so you didn't have to waste time cleaning up, etc). All of these studies seem to find nothing more than the fact that people who have no direction in life won't get it from money - which is both true and very obvious.
DanielBMarkham 16y ago
I remain a fan of Sam Walton and Ron Howard's family. Sam Walton was a multi-billionaire. Drove around in an old pickup truck and bought his clothes at Wal-Mart. When he realized he needed some kind of plane to get to all his stores more effectively, he bought a used Piper. Treated it like a big station wagon (not an advisable thing to do). He used to fly slow and low to wherever he was going, looking for Wal-Marts along the way. If he saw one that didn't have a lot of cars in the parking lot? He would land at the nearest airport or grass strip and go over to see what was up. He had lots of money yet the money didn't have him. Ron Howard was one of the most famous child actors from the 60s. Did his parents get him his own sitcom, tutors, and trips overseas? Nope. The Howards lived in a suburb in a modest home. Ron was expected to go to regular school like everyone else. Shooting on the Andy Griffith show was adjusted to make sure that the kid had a normal life. Sometimes his dad found work on the set doing odds and ends. All of his money was put in the bank until he got out of college.

46 points by j_baker 16y ago

BigZaphod 16y ago

I hate money, but it'd be nice to have more of it.

peterwwillis 16y ago
it'd be nice to have more of something you hate? this paradox is troubling. perhaps you should learn to love money, or learn to want/need less of it? examples: don't own an expensive mode of transportation, don't eat out, downsize your living arrangements.
lionhearted 16y ago
> I hate money Money is means of exchange, you get in return for doing things. There's dishonest ways to get it (violence, fraud) - but outside of those, money is just a ticket that says "you contributed this value, as measured by the person who gave the ticket to you" - contribute immensely more value than you receive and you'll love money and be happy with it. My wealthiest friends are honest wealthy people, who got their money as architects, doing shipping, surveying, building mines, coding, entrepreneurship, development, etc - creating value. They all contribute immensely more value than they receive in return - my best friend made $800,000 in his best year, but he facilitated about $100,000,000 of business while over-delivering across the board. When you're receiving .8% of the value you're helping build, you can be proud that you did so much and received such a small amount of it - while getting rich at the same time. Contribute much more than you receive in return, contribute a lot, receive a lot. Money isn't perfect, but it's a positive thing overall and not worth hating if you get it honestly.

keefe 16y ago

it's amazing how you never hear anybody who grew up poor talking about how money doesn't buy you happiness.

Eight 16y ago
Not really, it can buy you comfort - but that is not really what this article seems to be aiming at.
- keefe 16y ago
  and safety. mmmmm safety.
mikepurvis 16y ago
Really? I would argue quite the opposite. Obviously anecdotes mean little, but I can definitely think of examples from my own life of those who enjoy a sense of pride in _not_ having to spend money to increase their own happiness (or not spend as much as they perceive others find necessary). My own parents, for example, have much happiness and not a huge amount of money. And I don't honestly think that having it would really make them that much happier.
Psyonic 16y ago
Don't you? http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/10/money-cant-buy-happiness-so-man-gives-away-every-penny-of-his-3-million-fortune/ http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/10/money-cant-buy-happiness...
- DilipJ 16y ago
  "The idea that money doesn’t make you happy is a lie spread by rich people so that the poor people don’t kill them." -Michael Caine
  - username3 16y ago
    And the idea that money does make you happy is a lie spread by rich people so that the rich people don't kill themselves?
- keefe 16y ago
  after much contemplation, I have decided money can buy happiness but not sanity.

sorbus 16y ago

So if you think about money, you enjoy chocolate less and you eat it faster, or at least so the second study mentioned says. An alternative theory: people, when confronted with money, realize that they will not be able to enjoy more chocolate, due to the cost, and therefor rate it as being less enjoyable as a defense mechanism, to avoid the fact that they want more. They also eat it faster because they're worried that the researchers will make them pay for it. On a slightly more logical note ... all this shows is that thinking about money reduces enjoyment of things. Presumably, richer people are able to get things without thinking about the cost, and hence money. It would be interesting to do the same study on the rich and privileged, and see both if their average enjoyment of chocolate is lower, and if it gets even lower when they're thinking about money. Until that's done, it seems a bit extreme to say that this proves anything (except, perhaps, that worrying about money reduces enjoyment of chocolate, but I don't know if any of the subjects considered themselves rich, and how their results differed, if at all, so I can't even conclude that).

ahoyhere 16y ago
I would love to see that study that contrasts the effect of money attitudes. In my personal experience, at least, there's a huge difference between people's attitudes - even at equivalent means. By most people's standards, I'm rich. I don't think I'm rich, but I'm not attached to the money I have, or afraid of losing it, because I know that I can lose everything tomorrow and work my way back to my position in a year. (Because I've done it!) On the other hand, I have friends who have as much money as me, or more, but who agonize over every little thing. I would love to see if there's a scientifically provable difference between us, or if it's just my perception. That would lead to the question of, can healthier attitudes about money be taught? Which is something of personal interest.

bryanlarsen 16y ago

It's a nice trope, but the "money can't buy happiness" myth has been well debunked. Here's just one source, there are many more: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet

wazoox 16y ago
It's not so much that money buys happiness, than lack of money that makes you miserable. When you have enough (60000$/year apparently), having more doesn't enhance your happiness. See this interesting TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper...
- liedra 16y ago
  This completely gels with my experience. I like having enough money to live on comfortably: have a place that's just big enough, have money to eat out (not too expensively) when I feel like it, have enough to do something special occasionally, have enough to buy the sorts of foods I like (slightly more expensive locally produced foods, I'm a big fan of local production), have enough to buy some gadget or other if I save up for a bit. For me it's partly the saving up and appreciation of the expensive things that gives me happiness :) I make about 55k a year, and it's enough for me. Any more and I'd stop appreciating what now takes a bit of time to save up for. :) (though I wouldn't say no to a one off cash injection for a really nice sporty weekender car ;)
- bryanlarsen 16y ago
  No, that's the part that's been debunked. Look at the graph in my link: the biggest jump in happiness is from 75-100K to 100K+. The correlation isn't high: there are lots of unhappy rich people, and lots of happy poor people, but the correlation is statistically significant.

mathgladiator 16y ago

When I went homeless living on the campus (in the CS building), I discovered two things. 1) the time to get all my work done which enabled me to actually enjoy the gardens and the park benches on campus 2) I was happy The key to being happy isn't money, but having more time. After all, time is all we really have.

Ardit20 16y ago
and to be able to have plenty of time you need to make some millions so you do not have to work.
- mathgladiator 16y ago
  Or learn to live with a lot less. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
  - elptacek 16y ago
    That's really tough to sell to your kids.

csomar 16y ago

As I grew up and discovered our society (third world country, somewhere in Africa), I found out that money plays a critical part of our ecosystem. People here like to show to other people that they have a lot of money and the best life they can ever get: Luxurious car, fancy mobile phone, expensive clothes... Many people are spending for the exterior, more than the interior. It means that their life, is kinda fuc*ing, but they have a great car, mobile phone and they are prestigious in the society. The only thing they care about is their position and prestige in the society. They sacrifice money and comfort for it. Since money is power and can bring prestige, and prestige is what people are looking for and think is "the best life" or "the life of superior", then money means happiness.

Setsuna 16y ago

>Money restricts us from enjoying simple pleasures in life We can easily choose to ignore money and enjoy the simple pleasures.

tomjen3 16y ago

I am by no means rich, but the thing that nags me with all of this is that they seem to assume that getting rich is so you can buy expensive automobiles, huge houses (granted, I would properly buy a good car and a large house if I could) and that this alone will bring you happiness, but this seems an awfully shallow look at things. I can't stop to wonder if one wouldn't be happier if you had a large house and a nice car but used them as a means to an end (eg a large house so that you always had space for guests, maid service so you didn't have to waste time cleaning up, etc). All of these studies seem to find nothing more than the fact that people who have no direction in life won't get it from money - which is both true and very obvious.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

I remain a fan of Sam Walton and Ron Howard's family. Sam Walton was a multi-billionaire. Drove around in an old pickup truck and bought his clothes at Wal-Mart. When he realized he needed some kind of plane to get to all his stores more effectively, he bought a used Piper. Treated it like a big station wagon (not an advisable thing to do). He used to fly slow and low to wherever he was going, looking for Wal-Marts along the way. If he saw one that didn't have a lot of cars in the parking lot? He would land at the nearest airport or grass strip and go over to see what was up. He had lots of money yet the money didn't have him. Ron Howard was one of the most famous child actors from the 60s. Did his parents get him his own sitcom, tutors, and trips overseas? Nope. The Howards lived in a suburb in a modest home. Ron was expected to go to regular school like everyone else. Shooting on the Andy Griffith show was adjusted to make sure that the kid had a normal life. Sometimes his dad found work on the set doing odds and ends. All of his money was put in the bank until he got out of college.