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As a pedestrian in a dense Californian urban core, I have mixed feelings about bikers. Most bikers are reasonable, sensible bicycle commuters. They stay in the

by Kalium 9y ago

As a pedestrian in a dense Californian urban core, I have mixed feelings about bikers. Most bikers are reasonable, sensible bicycle commuters. They stay in the road, wear helmets, and follow laws. No skin off my nose. (ecologically friendly, fights obesity, blah blah blah blah blah) But I've also had multiple encounters with bicyclists who feel they are entitled to switch back and forth between a wheeled vehicle moving significantly above normal walking speeds and a pedestrian who just happens to be on a bicycle. Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them. Not infrequently such enhanced-pedestrians can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. Sometimes with cargo in tow. I have literally never even heard of there being any real consequences for such irresponsible and reckless behavior. I understand why they do it. It's so convenient! Roads certainly aren't always designed for the safety of bicyclists. Yet, these are perhaps less than adequate reasons for irresponsible behavior. More troubling to me is the role bicycles seem to play in the underground economy of the Bay. But that seems more an issue stemming from law enforcement's general disinclination to be interested in bikes and bikers at all.

wooter 9y ago
> But I've also had multiple encounters with bicyclists who feel they are entitled to switch back and forth between a wheeled vehicle moving significantly above normal walking speeds and a pedestrian who just happens to be on a bicycle. Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them. Not infrequently such enhanced-pedestrians can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. because they can. trying to pigeonhole cyclists as either cars or pedestrians is exactly why so many confrontations occur. its not that a cyclists prefer sidewalks as they are horrible to bike on (bumpy, uneven, inconsistent, obstacled), its that on some roads a distracted driver can mean near certain death. Its not irresponsible, its moving a 20 pound object around 100-200 lb people (if pedestrians cant be avoided) instead of holding their own against 3 ton cages. Are there douchey cyclists? yes. But just try getting down one block of SF only in the bike lane. You’ll be stuck behind a ups truck or broken muni for days or pop a tire on a broken bottle some hobo left there or get hit in the face with a door.
- Kalium 9y ago
  Moving a 20-pound chunk of metal at 20 mph with a 100-200 squishy on top amidst a bunch of unsuspecting and unexpecting other squishies may be less than maximally safe for all squishies involved. We're talking about 40-some-odd times more kinetic energy than your average squishy walking at 3 mph. If you're forced to move into pedestrian space for safety from giant metal cages, the safest option is to actually become a pedestrian. For you and for the other squishies around. I understand that it's slow, uncomfortable, and an unpleasant cycling experience. I appreciate the sacrifice you make for the safety of your fellow squishies. I'd also be happier with Bay biking culture if it didn't consistently make excuses for douchey cyclists.
  - RUG3Y 9y ago
    Yes, or at the very least, slow down to a reasonable speed instead of weaving in and out among the pedestrians. It's incredibly disorienting to have someone fly right by you at 20mph with zero warning. Scares the hell out of me every time.
    - mattcaldwell 9y ago
      If they are riding 20mph on the sidewalk, THAT'S the problem. At a more appropriate speed, it's safer for everyone.
- pound 9y ago
  In SF you're legally not allowed to ride on sidewalks if you're over age of 13.
  - wooter 9y ago
    seems like a bad law. i won’t ask anyone to risk their lives over a bad law
    - pound 9y ago
      you're also allowed use of full lane Mostly issue with city biking is drivers who think that roads are strictly for cars
mmmpop 9y ago
I enjoy cycling as much as anyone, but I detest a fairly sizable portion of cyclists I encounter throughout the city. In my part of the city it's assumed by most drivers that if a cyclist is riding through the neighborhood that they will completely disregard the stop sign and act accordingly. It can be confusing to them when a cyclist observers right-of-way. I'm no saint, I practice the Idaho Stop too but if I'm at a four-way stop and two cars stop before me, then of course they get to go.
- u801e 9y ago
  > I'm no saint, I practice the Idaho Stop too There are two parts to complying with a stop sign: 1. Come to full stop 2. Yield to any traffic that has the right-of-way before proceeding The problem with a lot of stop sign installations in the US is that they're largely unnecessary since it's possible to yield to traffic that has the right of way without having to come to a full stop first (since there's plenty of visibility of approaching cross traffic). That's why cyclists do "Idaho stops" and car drivers do rolling stops. If authorities would only post traffic control devices in areas that are absolutely necessary, instead of having a blanket rule for using them, then compliance would go up substantially and complaints about cyclists and cars running stop signs, for example, would be next to non-existent.
belorn 9y ago
> can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. Sometimes with cargo in tow. I would be very surprised to see that on a side walk. 20mph is above the speed limits for cars in cities here in Sweden, and I recall reading that while the police can catch people speeding on bikes that its not very likely event. > Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them Seems similar to parents with strollers. I have never heard of a parent being confronted by police for reckless engagement of children when walking on the bike road, and it is almost as if people do not view it as reckless. I am pretty sure through that people would react if a parent started to walk with the stroller onto the road against car traffic. I would be very interested to know how many people would confront a stranger that is walking a stroller on a bike road, or even just quietly consider it reckless.
- _jal 9y ago
  > I would be very surprised to see that on a side walk I don't walk to work with a radar gun, but sidewalk-bikes barreling down on me are a daily occurrence (San Francisco). Not people coasting down the block, people actively pumping and dodging. I've been run over by a bike twice, and while I'll take that any day vs. a car, those shitheads need to stay off the sidewalk. I am very pro-bike. I road one to work daily, until a couple of scary incidents put me off it. I no longer ride much[1]. That said, the jerks on the sidewalk, along with some of the more aggressive bikers, really need to be locked in a room with the entitled auto-rageoholics. The survivors can enjoy the nicer streets with the rest of us after they graduate from the reeducation camps. [1] Had a couple bad incidents nearly back-to-back, and am probably doing that thing where one's risk aversion increases with age, but I don't feel safe riding anymore.
  - belorn 9y ago
    Is that down a big hill? Naturally local phenomenon can be at any part of a variance, but it seems very odd. Even on a large stretch of leveled road, few bikes get close to 15 mph and the only time I have seen one go faster is from a professional biker, on a racing bicycle, doing a training run, and I would assume that their training paths don't generally include cargo and sidewalks. The average bike speed, as far as I know, is average 10 mph on city bike roads. Seeing a bike going 20 on a city sidewalk is like seeing a car going 150 on narrow city roads. I am sure it happens, but it is illegal, very dangerous, and not something most people will ever see in a life time. I think it is just fair to treat both forms equal and address it for what it is.

by Kalium 9y ago

wooter 9y ago

> But I've also had multiple encounters with bicyclists who feel they are entitled to switch back and forth between a wheeled vehicle moving significantly above normal walking speeds and a pedestrian who just happens to be on a bicycle. Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them. Not infrequently such enhanced-pedestrians can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. because they can. trying to pigeonhole cyclists as either cars or pedestrians is exactly why so many confrontations occur. its not that a cyclists prefer sidewalks as they are horrible to bike on (bumpy, uneven, inconsistent, obstacled), its that on some roads a distracted driver can mean near certain death. Its not irresponsible, its moving a 20 pound object around 100-200 lb people (if pedestrians cant be avoided) instead of holding their own against 3 ton cages. Are there douchey cyclists? yes. But just try getting down one block of SF only in the bike lane. You’ll be stuck behind a ups truck or broken muni for days or pop a tire on a broken bottle some hobo left there or get hit in the face with a door.

Kalium 9y ago
Moving a 20-pound chunk of metal at 20 mph with a 100-200 squishy on top amidst a bunch of unsuspecting and unexpecting other squishies may be less than maximally safe for all squishies involved. We're talking about 40-some-odd times more kinetic energy than your average squishy walking at 3 mph. If you're forced to move into pedestrian space for safety from giant metal cages, the safest option is to actually become a pedestrian. For you and for the other squishies around. I understand that it's slow, uncomfortable, and an unpleasant cycling experience. I appreciate the sacrifice you make for the safety of your fellow squishies. I'd also be happier with Bay biking culture if it didn't consistently make excuses for douchey cyclists.
- RUG3Y 9y ago
  Yes, or at the very least, slow down to a reasonable speed instead of weaving in and out among the pedestrians. It's incredibly disorienting to have someone fly right by you at 20mph with zero warning. Scares the hell out of me every time.
  - mattcaldwell 9y ago
    If they are riding 20mph on the sidewalk, THAT'S the problem. At a more appropriate speed, it's safer for everyone.
pound 9y ago
In SF you're legally not allowed to ride on sidewalks if you're over age of 13.
- wooter 9y ago
  seems like a bad law. i won’t ask anyone to risk their lives over a bad law
  - pound 9y ago
    you're also allowed use of full lane Mostly issue with city biking is drivers who think that roads are strictly for cars

mmmpop 9y ago

I enjoy cycling as much as anyone, but I detest a fairly sizable portion of cyclists I encounter throughout the city. In my part of the city it's assumed by most drivers that if a cyclist is riding through the neighborhood that they will completely disregard the stop sign and act accordingly. It can be confusing to them when a cyclist observers right-of-way. I'm no saint, I practice the Idaho Stop too but if I'm at a four-way stop and two cars stop before me, then of course they get to go.

u801e 9y ago
> I'm no saint, I practice the Idaho Stop too There are two parts to complying with a stop sign: 1. Come to full stop 2. Yield to any traffic that has the right-of-way before proceeding The problem with a lot of stop sign installations in the US is that they're largely unnecessary since it's possible to yield to traffic that has the right of way without having to come to a full stop first (since there's plenty of visibility of approaching cross traffic). That's why cyclists do "Idaho stops" and car drivers do rolling stops. If authorities would only post traffic control devices in areas that are absolutely necessary, instead of having a blanket rule for using them, then compliance would go up substantially and complaints about cyclists and cars running stop signs, for example, would be next to non-existent.

belorn 9y ago

> can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. Sometimes with cargo in tow. I would be very surprised to see that on a side walk. 20mph is above the speed limits for cars in cities here in Sweden, and I recall reading that while the police can catch people speeding on bikes that its not very likely event. > Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them Seems similar to parents with strollers. I have never heard of a parent being confronted by police for reckless engagement of children when walking on the bike road, and it is almost as if people do not view it as reckless. I am pretty sure through that people would react if a parent started to walk with the stroller onto the road against car traffic. I would be very interested to know how many people would confront a stranger that is walking a stroller on a bike road, or even just quietly consider it reckless.

_jal 9y ago
> I would be very surprised to see that on a side walk I don't walk to work with a radar gun, but sidewalk-bikes barreling down on me are a daily occurrence (San Francisco). Not people coasting down the block, people actively pumping and dodging. I've been run over by a bike twice, and while I'll take that any day vs. a car, those shitheads need to stay off the sidewalk. I am very pro-bike. I road one to work daily, until a couple of scary incidents put me off it. I no longer ride much[1]. That said, the jerks on the sidewalk, along with some of the more aggressive bikers, really need to be locked in a room with the entitled auto-rageoholics. The survivors can enjoy the nicer streets with the rest of us after they graduate from the reeducation camps. [1] Had a couple bad incidents nearly back-to-back, and am probably doing that thing where one's risk aversion increases with age, but I don't feel safe riding anymore.
- belorn 9y ago
  Is that down a big hill? Naturally local phenomenon can be at any part of a variance, but it seems very odd. Even on a large stretch of leveled road, few bikes get close to 15 mph and the only time I have seen one go faster is from a professional biker, on a racing bicycle, doing a training run, and I would assume that their training paths don't generally include cargo and sidewalks. The average bike speed, as far as I know, is average 10 mph on city bike roads. Seeing a bike going 20 on a city sidewalk is like seeing a car going 150 on narrow city roads. I am sure it happens, but it is illegal, very dangerous, and not something most people will ever see in a life time. I think it is just fair to treat both forms equal and address it for what it is.