5 ms·

What I have found is there is a tiny minority of people who _hate_ bikers. I walk 4 miles a day on city sidewalks. The number of times I have to yield to bike

by e40 9y ago

What I have found is there is a tiny minority of people who _hate_ bikers. I walk 4 miles a day on city sidewalks. The number of times I have to yield to bikers on the sidewalk is disgusting[0]. And some of these bikers are going fast. I once saved a child that was about to run out of a store. I could see, from my vantage point, the biker and the child set for a collision course. I stepped in front of the biker, doing about 20 mph on the sidewalk, to stop them. I got an earful of 4-letter words not a thank you. Of course, there was the 20-something woman killed in a crosswalk by a biker running a light in SF a few years ago. As a pedestrian, I have no love for many drivers or bikers, since they are a constant source of danger. EDIT: [0] I had an argument with a young woman at a light once, where I told her politely that she wasn't supposed to be on the sidewalk. He response? To tell me I was a selfish person not wanting to share the sidewalk.

CydeWeys 9y ago
Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. There's simply no room to do so, as there's so many pedestrians. You end up going more slowly than if you stayed on the street where you belong in nearly all circumstances. Don't be too mad at the cyclists, though. Usually they're doing it because the city isn't providing the proper level of bike infrastructure. With more high quality bike lanes that people feel safe using, you'll see a lot fewer cyclists on sidewalks. It works in Manhattan.
- santaclaus 9y ago
  > Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. NYPD ticket like crazy for sidewalk biking. Bay Area cops in the cities don’t really ticket for ‘quality of life’ crimes (or even blatant things like busting out car windows and such).
  - tooltalk 9y ago
    My understanding is that NYPD stopped going after frivolous violations after the Eric Garner incident a few years ago. I myself was ticketed ($40) once for wearing headphones on both ears, but I haven't seen cops enforcing such rules recently.
- pcsanwald 9y ago
  I'm a longtime NYer who recently moved to SF. for the past 10 years I've commuted by running each way, ~3-5 miles each way. plenty of experience with bikes and cars in urban areas. Biking on the sidewalk is WAY more common in SF than in NYC, especially in manhattan. In SF, there seems to be a few main reasons: 1 - Biking on the street would clearly be unsafe. An example here is 3rd st between portrero and soma. 2 - Biking on the sidewalk on the block where you are stopping. These are people that usually bike on the street, but pull onto the sidewalk when they are leaving/entering a building. I understand this, but wish it wasn't so common. 3 - ignorance of, or just not caring about, biking rules and conventions. It's easy to assume that #3 is always the case and get angry about it, but it's frequently #1 or #2 and I do think some empathy is called for.
  - xur17 9y ago
    I'm curious to hear more about your commute. I live ~3 miles from work, and would love to run there, but there isn't a good way for me to store my towel, a change of clothing, etc at work, and it doesn't seem feasible to carry all of this in a backpack. We do have showers, but they don't have overnight storage.
    - pcsanwald 9y ago
      Sure. The basic answer is that I use a good running backpack and it's easy for me to carry all that stuff. When I first started, I was sparring (boxing) in the morning before work, so I used a eagle creek overnight hiking pack. it was bulky but not too bad for a 3 mile run. Once I stopped sparring in the morning, I switched to a Black Diamond Dart. Easy to run with, and ample room for all the stuff you mentioned. I now use a super light pack, and only pack my lunch, pants/shirt/socks/underwear. I live in SF, and generally don't shower unless I get really sweaty. Some people find this gross in theory but I don't, people in NYC get sweaty as hell walking from the subway to work in the summer in their regular clothes, so I've never really seen the difference. Two big things I do come to mind: I never take my laptop to/from work everyday. I also keep dress shoes at work under my desk.
  - seppin 9y ago
    > I'm a longtime NYer who recently moved to SF. on HN is there seriously only two places to live in the US?
belorn 9y ago
Im surprised to hear about bike and pedestrian collision in a city. I bike each day and commonly see on bike roads everything from strollers, wheelchairs, to kids who has only barely learned to walk. Each of those would be a fatal if they had a collision with a 20mph biker, and yet not a single death have been reported in my city as far as I know. Its a bit strange, given the number of potential times that this situation occur, especially during winter half year when the road should be extra dangerous. So I must ask, how much of a freak accident is a traffic death caused by a biker crashing into a pedestrian? I recall looking into statistics for it a while back, but it seems that only data I could find was death caused by people falling down from bikes or into cars, not crashing into other people. The national statistics here in Sweden over road accident, the one which famously has a zero death goal, do include bikes and car collision (3 people died last year) but has no data at all over deaths caused by bike hitting people. Assuming that number is 0. Is it possible that the 20-something woman killed was a freak accident? 20mph is about 50% faster than the legal limit of a electric bike, would be classified as a illegal moped at those speed if it has a engine, and it is even above the legal limit for cars inside Swedish cities. A bit unusual to see in city traffic.
- revelation 9y ago
  Why would you think a 20 mph collision with a bike is likely to be fatal? Even a car ped collision at 20 mph is quite survivable; that's why mostly evidence governed countries like Sweden have 20 mph limits, as you get faster you may save time linearly (doubtful in a city, your average is way down there) but chance of survival diminishes by the square. That said, it happens, but only on the order of 1 or 2 deaths, and in some years none at all. The incidence is extremely low so no meaningful statistics. And then of course it mostly involves an old population who are susceptible to dieing from even a simple fall after stumbling on a tree root. It tells us more about the elderly than risk of cycle collisions.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
imgabe 9y ago
Better bike infrastructure keeps bikes off the sidewalk. As a biker you can't win. Drivers try to run you off the road, pedestrians don't want you on the sidewalk. Bike lanes are a solution, but the political will needs to be there. That being said, in places where bikers feel they have to use the sidewalk, they should absolutely yield to pedestrians.
- andrewla 9y ago
  In places where bikers feel they have to use the sidewalk, they should absolutely walk their bikes. It's what the law says and its very sensible all around. If you have to go the wrong way up a one-way street or if the road is blocked, you can just get off your bike and walk it for a block. It's not the end of the world to have to walk for a minute. As both a biker and a pedestrian in NYC, this seems so glaringly obvious that it never fails to make me angry when I see a biker blithely biking down the sidewalk. In a city of impatient people riding your bike on the sidewalk is taking things to an anti-social extreme. That said, I do find it frustrating (as both a biker and a pedestrian) when pedestrians fail to yield to bikers when the biker has the light -- New York pedestrians are opportunistic jaywalkers by nature, but so many people fail to look for bikes or yield to them, even when they have the light, if the street is clear of car traffic.
  - dmm 9y ago
    > they should absolutely walk their bikes. In many places of the US you have sidewalks built because they were mandated by law but are rarely used. A typical example will have a 4-lane 45+mph road next to big box retail stores. This type of road is unpleasant to bike on but the adjoining sidewalk is empty and, assuming it has sufficient visibility to allow the cyclist to avoid left and right hooks, is much safer than the road. NYC is a fascinating and important place but for better or worse is very different from the typical US city.
  - imgabe 9y ago
    > It's what the law says The law varies city by city. Where I live bikes are prohibited from the sidewalk only in the downtown area and it's legal elsewhere. Not that it stops anyone from biking on the sidewalk even downtown or that it ever gets enforced.
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
A woman killed a few years ago by a bike? That's terrible. Not quite as terrible as one pedestrian being killed every 1.6 hours by cars though. (2015 figures for the USA)
- e40 9y ago
  Nice change of subject. I never said cars aren't dangerous to pedestrians.
sireat 9y ago
When I am a pedestrian I would much rather take my chances with a inconsiderate biker than a inconsiderate car driver. Bikers killing someone are extremely rare. Bikers getting killed by drivers is more common (citation needed). When I am biking I'd much rather be riding slowly on a sidewalk than getting killed by a inconsiderate driver. Where I live it is legal to ride on sidewalks in streets with no bike lines. So instead of taking my chances on a busy street I'd much rather ride slowly(10-15 km/h) on a sidewalk. In an ideal world the cities would have specific bike only lines which cover all areas. I hear Copenhagen and Amsterdam are good with this.
- e40 9y ago
  When I am a pedestrian I would much rather take my chances with a inconsiderate biker than a inconsiderate car driver. It's not a choice. Every pedestrian must deal with both. When I am biking I'd much rather be riding slowly on a sidewalk than getting killed by a inconsiderate driver. Here's the thing: the amount of risk you are comfortable with is probably different than it is for me. What bikers who ride on the sidewalk are doing is forcing their risk tolerance on me. Given where I walk it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, I feel a certain amount of righteousness in asking bikers to get off the sidewalk.

by e40 9y ago

CydeWeys 9y ago

Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. There's simply no room to do so, as there's so many pedestrians. You end up going more slowly than if you stayed on the street where you belong in nearly all circumstances. Don't be too mad at the cyclists, though. Usually they're doing it because the city isn't providing the proper level of bike infrastructure. With more high quality bike lanes that people feel safe using, you'll see a lot fewer cyclists on sidewalks. It works in Manhattan.

santaclaus 9y ago
> Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. NYPD ticket like crazy for sidewalk biking. Bay Area cops in the cities don’t really ticket for ‘quality of life’ crimes (or even blatant things like busting out car windows and such).
- tooltalk 9y ago
  My understanding is that NYPD stopped going after frivolous violations after the Eric Garner incident a few years ago. I myself was ticketed ($40) once for wearing headphones on both ears, but I haven't seen cops enforcing such rules recently.
pcsanwald 9y ago
I'm a longtime NYer who recently moved to SF. for the past 10 years I've commuted by running each way, ~3-5 miles each way. plenty of experience with bikes and cars in urban areas. Biking on the sidewalk is WAY more common in SF than in NYC, especially in manhattan. In SF, there seems to be a few main reasons: 1 - Biking on the street would clearly be unsafe. An example here is 3rd st between portrero and soma. 2 - Biking on the sidewalk on the block where you are stopping. These are people that usually bike on the street, but pull onto the sidewalk when they are leaving/entering a building. I understand this, but wish it wasn't so common. 3 - ignorance of, or just not caring about, biking rules and conventions. It's easy to assume that #3 is always the case and get angry about it, but it's frequently #1 or #2 and I do think some empathy is called for.
- xur17 9y ago
  I'm curious to hear more about your commute. I live ~3 miles from work, and would love to run there, but there isn't a good way for me to store my towel, a change of clothing, etc at work, and it doesn't seem feasible to carry all of this in a backpack. We do have showers, but they don't have overnight storage.
  - pcsanwald 9y ago
    Sure. The basic answer is that I use a good running backpack and it's easy for me to carry all that stuff. When I first started, I was sparring (boxing) in the morning before work, so I used a eagle creek overnight hiking pack. it was bulky but not too bad for a 3 mile run. Once I stopped sparring in the morning, I switched to a Black Diamond Dart. Easy to run with, and ample room for all the stuff you mentioned. I now use a super light pack, and only pack my lunch, pants/shirt/socks/underwear. I live in SF, and generally don't shower unless I get really sweaty. Some people find this gross in theory but I don't, people in NYC get sweaty as hell walking from the subway to work in the summer in their regular clothes, so I've never really seen the difference. Two big things I do come to mind: I never take my laptop to/from work everyday. I also keep dress shoes at work under my desk.
- seppin 9y ago
  > I'm a longtime NYer who recently moved to SF. on HN is there seriously only two places to live in the US?

belorn 9y ago

Im surprised to hear about bike and pedestrian collision in a city. I bike each day and commonly see on bike roads everything from strollers, wheelchairs, to kids who has only barely learned to walk. Each of those would be a fatal if they had a collision with a 20mph biker, and yet not a single death have been reported in my city as far as I know. Its a bit strange, given the number of potential times that this situation occur, especially during winter half year when the road should be extra dangerous. So I must ask, how much of a freak accident is a traffic death caused by a biker crashing into a pedestrian? I recall looking into statistics for it a while back, but it seems that only data I could find was death caused by people falling down from bikes or into cars, not crashing into other people. The national statistics here in Sweden over road accident, the one which famously has a zero death goal, do include bikes and car collision (3 people died last year) but has no data at all over deaths caused by bike hitting people. Assuming that number is 0. Is it possible that the 20-something woman killed was a freak accident? 20mph is about 50% faster than the legal limit of a electric bike, would be classified as a illegal moped at those speed if it has a engine, and it is even above the legal limit for cars inside Swedish cities. A bit unusual to see in city traffic.

revelation 9y ago
Why would you think a 20 mph collision with a bike is likely to be fatal? Even a car ped collision at 20 mph is quite survivable; that's why mostly evidence governed countries like Sweden have 20 mph limits, as you get faster you may save time linearly (doubtful in a city, your average is way down there) but chance of survival diminishes by the square. That said, it happens, but only on the order of 1 or 2 deaths, and in some years none at all. The incidence is extremely low so no meaningful statistics. And then of course it mostly involves an old population who are susceptible to dieing from even a simple fall after stumbling on a tree root. It tells us more about the elderly than risk of cycle collisions.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

imgabe 9y ago

Better bike infrastructure keeps bikes off the sidewalk. As a biker you can't win. Drivers try to run you off the road, pedestrians don't want you on the sidewalk. Bike lanes are a solution, but the political will needs to be there. That being said, in places where bikers feel they have to use the sidewalk, they should absolutely yield to pedestrians.

andrewla 9y ago
In places where bikers feel they have to use the sidewalk, they should absolutely walk their bikes. It's what the law says and its very sensible all around. If you have to go the wrong way up a one-way street or if the road is blocked, you can just get off your bike and walk it for a block. It's not the end of the world to have to walk for a minute. As both a biker and a pedestrian in NYC, this seems so glaringly obvious that it never fails to make me angry when I see a biker blithely biking down the sidewalk. In a city of impatient people riding your bike on the sidewalk is taking things to an anti-social extreme. That said, I do find it frustrating (as both a biker and a pedestrian) when pedestrians fail to yield to bikers when the biker has the light -- New York pedestrians are opportunistic jaywalkers by nature, but so many people fail to look for bikes or yield to them, even when they have the light, if the street is clear of car traffic.
- dmm 9y ago
  > they should absolutely walk their bikes. In many places of the US you have sidewalks built because they were mandated by law but are rarely used. A typical example will have a 4-lane 45+mph road next to big box retail stores. This type of road is unpleasant to bike on but the adjoining sidewalk is empty and, assuming it has sufficient visibility to allow the cyclist to avoid left and right hooks, is much safer than the road. NYC is a fascinating and important place but for better or worse is very different from the typical US city.
- imgabe 9y ago
  > It's what the law says The law varies city by city. Where I live bikes are prohibited from the sidewalk only in the downtown area and it's legal elsewhere. Not that it stops anyone from biking on the sidewalk even downtown or that it ever gets enforced.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago

A woman killed a few years ago by a bike? That's terrible. Not quite as terrible as one pedestrian being killed every 1.6 hours by cars though. (2015 figures for the USA)

e40 9y ago
Nice change of subject. I never said cars aren't dangerous to pedestrians.

sireat 9y ago

When I am a pedestrian I would much rather take my chances with a inconsiderate biker than a inconsiderate car driver. Bikers killing someone are extremely rare. Bikers getting killed by drivers is more common (citation needed). When I am biking I'd much rather be riding slowly on a sidewalk than getting killed by a inconsiderate driver. Where I live it is legal to ride on sidewalks in streets with no bike lines. So instead of taking my chances on a busy street I'd much rather ride slowly(10-15 km/h) on a sidewalk. In an ideal world the cities would have specific bike only lines which cover all areas. I hear Copenhagen and Amsterdam are good with this.

e40 9y ago
When I am a pedestrian I would much rather take my chances with a inconsiderate biker than a inconsiderate car driver. It's not a choice. Every pedestrian must deal with both. When I am biking I'd much rather be riding slowly on a sidewalk than getting killed by a inconsiderate driver. Here's the thing: the amount of risk you are comfortable with is probably different than it is for me. What bikers who ride on the sidewalk are doing is forcing their risk tolerance on me. Given where I walk it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, I feel a certain amount of righteousness in asking bikers to get off the sidewalk.