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>most bikers observe the traffic laws Not in Philadelphia, at least. I walk everywhere, and racking my brain for bike encounters I can only recall one of maybe

>most bikers observe the traffic laws Not in Philadelphia, at least. I walk everywhere, and racking my brain for bike encounters I can only recall one of maybe 20 instances in which a bike actually stopped at a red light. I can recall at least a third of those instances where bikes were travelling the wrong way on a one way street, and another third with bikes on the sidewalk. That being said, I still think biking is a net positive. It would be better if the roads were designed with bikes in mind. The problem with bad human behavior is almost never the human, but the system that's designed to disincentivize the good behavior.

hahamrfunnyguy 9y ago
I obey traffic laws when it is safe to do so. There are some dangerous interections around here where the bike lane disappears then starts up again. If you ride with the traffic as you're supposed to, cars behind will try to pass in the middle of the intersection. In those cases, sometimes I will ride up on the sidewalk to bypass the dangerous part of the itnersection. I would feel better if there was a separate light in the bike lane that allowed the bikes to proceed first.
- specialist 9y ago
  This is the correct answer. One of my safety heuristics is "clear the intersection". Sometimes that means jump the light, or follow a car thru a 4-way, or full stop (foot on ground) to clearly signal I'm waiting my turn.
jandrese 9y ago
I obey stoplights on my bike, but it's really punishing sometimes. Bikes don't trip the sensors so the light will ignore you until a car pulls up behind you. This can require three or four cycles of the lights if traffic in your direction is sparse.
- kingbirdy 9y ago
  I've heard that if you get off and lay the bike on its side, it can help trip the sensor. Usually they're electromagnetic, so on its side the bike is a good inductor, but not in its normal position.
  - jandrese 9y ago
    I'll give this a try. It should be pretty obvious if it works.
- TeamTeaTime 9y ago
  They sell magnets for motorcycles that are supposed to help trip the light sensor. Might be worth checking out?
- clort 9y ago
  In the UK at least, you can often see a rubber strip in a square where the sensor has been added to the road (they cut a slot then re-seal it). I try to stop with my wheel rims right on strip and it often triggers the lights. In fact, I wonder sometimes if it actually senses stronger because the metal wheel rim is so much closer as I've had the light turn immediately if I get it just so. (the specific junction I use is only detector triggered, it doesn't time back and forth at all)
  - jandrese 9y ago
    Sadly, the roads around here don't have visible seams where the sensors are. I'm going to have to guess.
- revelation 9y ago
  I mean, this is a very good example for the kind of care taken by the people designing and overseeing roads in respect to cycling. Can you fucking imagine shipping a product that just plain doesn't work for a large part of what the law defines as a vehicle? For something as crucial as a light? Can you imagine installing that as the government, not in some test locations, but all over? I'm not quite sure what specifications lights need to conform to but a good fricking starting point seems like the law. These things are just plain defective.
dkhenry 9y ago
I am from philadelphia as well so I know there are bikes who stop at red lights and stay on the streets. I am not so nieve to think everyone does as I have also run across people who don't obey any traffic laws, but over the last 15 years biking in philly has grown up a lot, and people who used to rationalize their behavior because of lack of infrastructure are changing their ways and coming in line with what is expected of bikers in an urban setting. There will always be those who don't follow the rules, just like there are pedestrians and cars who don't follow the rules, but the situation in that city has gotten so much better, not because new laws were passed or cops cracked down on people running stop signs. The situation got better because more people bike, we put up bike lanes, and drivers got used to bikes being in the street with them.
kpmariner 9y ago
As a biker in Philly - I'll start following the rules of the road when the cars do. I've lived in other cities where I obeyed every traffic law, just like I was in a car. If you do that in Philly, you get run over by a car or hit a jay walking pedestrian.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  This attitude is exactly why some people hate bikers. It's not productive, if everyone takes this attitude then nothing is going to get better. Step up and be a model for the behavior you want to see around you.
  - kpmariner 9y ago
    I'd rather not die.
    - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      Don't be so dramatic. Waiting at red lights isn't going to kill you, in fact it may do the opposite.
      - kpmariner 9y ago
        I do stop at red lights or at least slow down and make sure the way it is safe to cross, that isn't the problem. I just have to constantly jump up onto sidewalks. After stopping at the light - especially if there are cars trying to take a right and the way is clear - I will go before it turns green. I rarely stop at stop signs for four way stops. In general, traffic isn't paying attention. They will swerve blindly into the bike lane to get around other cars to take a right and I can't depend on them to be watching out for me. Once I stop moving I remove the option of swerving out of the way. After my first month of biking here and almost getting hit several times, I just gave up and I ride as aggressively as everyone here drives. I hate it. Biking in New York, Portland or anywhere else I've lived is just a different game. Philly is the most stressful place I've biked.
sampo 9y ago
> > most bikers observe the traffic laws > Not in Philadelphia, at least. This is mostly solvable by building better infrastructure. Just visit Netherlands or Denmark to see how well things could be organized. When the infrastructure is bad, bikers (or people in general) will resort to odd behavior just to get by.

hahamrfunnyguy 9y ago

I obey traffic laws when it is safe to do so. There are some dangerous interections around here where the bike lane disappears then starts up again. If you ride with the traffic as you're supposed to, cars behind will try to pass in the middle of the intersection. In those cases, sometimes I will ride up on the sidewalk to bypass the dangerous part of the itnersection. I would feel better if there was a separate light in the bike lane that allowed the bikes to proceed first.

specialist 9y ago
This is the correct answer. One of my safety heuristics is "clear the intersection". Sometimes that means jump the light, or follow a car thru a 4-way, or full stop (foot on ground) to clearly signal I'm waiting my turn.

jandrese 9y ago

I obey stoplights on my bike, but it's really punishing sometimes. Bikes don't trip the sensors so the light will ignore you until a car pulls up behind you. This can require three or four cycles of the lights if traffic in your direction is sparse.

kingbirdy 9y ago
I've heard that if you get off and lay the bike on its side, it can help trip the sensor. Usually they're electromagnetic, so on its side the bike is a good inductor, but not in its normal position.
- jandrese 9y ago
  I'll give this a try. It should be pretty obvious if it works.
TeamTeaTime 9y ago
They sell magnets for motorcycles that are supposed to help trip the light sensor. Might be worth checking out?
clort 9y ago
In the UK at least, you can often see a rubber strip in a square where the sensor has been added to the road (they cut a slot then re-seal it). I try to stop with my wheel rims right on strip and it often triggers the lights. In fact, I wonder sometimes if it actually senses stronger because the metal wheel rim is so much closer as I've had the light turn immediately if I get it just so. (the specific junction I use is only detector triggered, it doesn't time back and forth at all)
- jandrese 9y ago
  Sadly, the roads around here don't have visible seams where the sensors are. I'm going to have to guess.
revelation 9y ago
I mean, this is a very good example for the kind of care taken by the people designing and overseeing roads in respect to cycling. Can you fucking imagine shipping a product that just plain doesn't work for a large part of what the law defines as a vehicle? For something as crucial as a light? Can you imagine installing that as the government, not in some test locations, but all over? I'm not quite sure what specifications lights need to conform to but a good fricking starting point seems like the law. These things are just plain defective.

dkhenry 9y ago

I am from philadelphia as well so I know there are bikes who stop at red lights and stay on the streets. I am not so nieve to think everyone does as I have also run across people who don't obey any traffic laws, but over the last 15 years biking in philly has grown up a lot, and people who used to rationalize their behavior because of lack of infrastructure are changing their ways and coming in line with what is expected of bikers in an urban setting. There will always be those who don't follow the rules, just like there are pedestrians and cars who don't follow the rules, but the situation in that city has gotten so much better, not because new laws were passed or cops cracked down on people running stop signs. The situation got better because more people bike, we put up bike lanes, and drivers got used to bikes being in the street with them.

kpmariner 9y ago

As a biker in Philly - I'll start following the rules of the road when the cars do. I've lived in other cities where I obeyed every traffic law, just like I was in a car. If you do that in Philly, you get run over by a car or hit a jay walking pedestrian.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
This attitude is exactly why some people hate bikers. It's not productive, if everyone takes this attitude then nothing is going to get better. Step up and be a model for the behavior you want to see around you.
- kpmariner 9y ago
  I'd rather not die.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    Don't be so dramatic. Waiting at red lights isn't going to kill you, in fact it may do the opposite.
    - kpmariner 9y ago
      I do stop at red lights or at least slow down and make sure the way it is safe to cross, that isn't the problem. I just have to constantly jump up onto sidewalks. After stopping at the light - especially if there are cars trying to take a right and the way is clear - I will go before it turns green. I rarely stop at stop signs for four way stops. In general, traffic isn't paying attention. They will swerve blindly into the bike lane to get around other cars to take a right and I can't depend on them to be watching out for me. Once I stop moving I remove the option of swerving out of the way. After my first month of biking here and almost getting hit several times, I just gave up and I ride as aggressively as everyone here drives. I hate it. Biking in New York, Portland or anywhere else I've lived is just a different game. Philly is the most stressful place I've biked.

sampo 9y ago

> > most bikers observe the traffic laws > Not in Philadelphia, at least. This is mostly solvable by building better infrastructure. Just visit Netherlands or Denmark to see how well things could be organized. When the infrastructure is bad, bikers (or people in general) will resort to odd behavior just to get by.