6 ms·

> i probably drive more than bike, depends on the weather and somewhat the mood i'm in A lot of bikers won't bike when the weather reaches a certain point (too

> i probably drive more than bike, depends on the weather and somewhat the mood i'm in A lot of bikers won't bike when the weather reaches a certain point (too cold, too much rain). This means that even if you build infrastructure for bikes, you're still going to have to build just as much throughput for other modes of transportation as you did before (they have to handle situations where no one is biking).

pg314 9y ago
That's not true in places that have good bike infrastructure. E.g. Belgium, the Netherlands or Denmark get plenty of rain. That doesn't stop bicyclists at all. Cold and snow doesn't stop most people either. You just wear a couple of extra layers and go a bit slower if it's slippery.
- bluGill 9y ago
  When you are exercising hard heat is much worse than cold. A light sweater is enough for - 30, but at just over 25 you run out of things to take off.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    I'm not sure I want to see you out riding when it's over 25 :)
    - npsimons 9y ago
      Just like you can adapt to exertion in cold, you can adapt to exertion in heat. I regularly do both. It helps if you aren't overweight.
  - pg314 9y ago
    Utilitarian bicycling is not necessarily the same as exercising hard. Most people here in Belgium cycle at about 15-20 km/h. With the added breeze it's often more comfortable to cycle than to walk if it is really hot.
- Chathamization 9y ago
  > That doesn't stop bicyclists at all. It seems to stop at least a number of them, even in places like Denmark. Look at the answers to this question, "Do Danes ride a bike in heavy rain?"[1]: > Yes, though fewer will than in nice weather. > Bus fill up more then usual in rain, though Or this blogpost about people from Copenhagen biking through the winter[2]: > As mentioned before, 80% of Copenhageners cycle through the winter. That number is surely lower when we have hard winters with snowstorm after snowstorm, but the numbers are still impressive. And keep in mind the number we'd be interested in would be lower - not just how many people generally cycle throughout the winter (which seems to be ~80%), but how many of that 80% still choose to cycle on particularly cold or snowy winter days. So even if we could have infrastructure on par with Copenhagen, and even if we get a corresponding cultural shift (neither of these are easy or quick tasks), we would still need the other forms of transportation infrastructure to be able to handle the spillover that occurs when large amount of bikers don't feel like biking. [1] https://www.quora.com/Do-Danes-ride-a-bike-in-heavy-rain https://www.quora.com/Do-Danes-ride-a-bike-in-heavy-rain [2] http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/01/cycling-in-winter-in-copenhagen.html http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/01/cycling-in-winter-in-co...
  - imgabe 9y ago
    Adding bike lanes doesn't remove other infrastructure. In most cases we already have all the other infrastructure. Nobody is arguing we should replace every form of transportation with biking.
  - pg314 9y ago
    You're right, it stops some. But only a minority. > we would still need the other forms of transportation infrastructure to be able to handle the spillover that occurs when large amount of bikers don't feel like biking. Not necessarily. If you don't have (enough of) that infrastructure, less people will be tempted by it. I imagine the 20% in Copenhagen switch to public transportation because it is well developed and convenient. When I commuted by bicycle, weather wasn't a factor because I had no convenient alternative. Ditto for my colleagues who commuted by bicycle. I agree that the biggest problem is cultural.
matt4077 9y ago
Many transits are actually flexible, and people can react to weather and traffic conditions by postponing or canceling their plans. Often, that's exactly what happens completely independent from the transport options because, for example, any outdoor activity is going to be less fun when it's cold and rainy. If you somehow get people to try, they also discover that biking in really bad conditions is actually quite a lot of fun, provided you are wearing the right clothes. In the cold, your usual jacket is almost always enough because you're exercising anyway, but you'll need the best gloves and hat you can find. The days where I got to work in a snowstorm are actually my most productive :) The real problem in bad weather conditions is that the threat from cars is amplified: it's usually dark in winter, snow and rain further deteriorate visibility, and snow/ice are dangerous because both bikes and cars are less predictable. Bikes are also extremely vulnerable to blocks of hardened snow that often get shoved right onto their usual path by cars.
calt 9y ago
I ride my bicycle all winter. When the weather gets bad, I go a longer route with better bicycle infrastructure where it's safe to go slowly and I'm not being tailed by a car. If I lived in a city where no such route existed I would resort to other means of transportation. Why do you "have to" build more car infrastructure? If traffic gets worse when the weather gets bad then there's even more incentive to bicycle despite the weather. That's the whole point of cycle-first, transit-first, pedestrian-first city planning: Cars don't scale, so stop trying.

pg314 9y ago

That's not true in places that have good bike infrastructure. E.g. Belgium, the Netherlands or Denmark get plenty of rain. That doesn't stop bicyclists at all. Cold and snow doesn't stop most people either. You just wear a couple of extra layers and go a bit slower if it's slippery.

bluGill 9y ago
When you are exercising hard heat is much worse than cold. A light sweater is enough for - 30, but at just over 25 you run out of things to take off.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I'm not sure I want to see you out riding when it's over 25 :)
  - npsimons 9y ago
    Just like you can adapt to exertion in cold, you can adapt to exertion in heat. I regularly do both. It helps if you aren't overweight.
- pg314 9y ago
  Utilitarian bicycling is not necessarily the same as exercising hard. Most people here in Belgium cycle at about 15-20 km/h. With the added breeze it's often more comfortable to cycle than to walk if it is really hot.
Chathamization 9y ago
> That doesn't stop bicyclists at all. It seems to stop at least a number of them, even in places like Denmark. Look at the answers to this question, "Do Danes ride a bike in heavy rain?"[1]: > Yes, though fewer will than in nice weather. > Bus fill up more then usual in rain, though Or this blogpost about people from Copenhagen biking through the winter[2]: > As mentioned before, 80% of Copenhageners cycle through the winter. That number is surely lower when we have hard winters with snowstorm after snowstorm, but the numbers are still impressive. And keep in mind the number we'd be interested in would be lower - not just how many people generally cycle throughout the winter (which seems to be ~80%), but how many of that 80% still choose to cycle on particularly cold or snowy winter days. So even if we could have infrastructure on par with Copenhagen, and even if we get a corresponding cultural shift (neither of these are easy or quick tasks), we would still need the other forms of transportation infrastructure to be able to handle the spillover that occurs when large amount of bikers don't feel like biking. [1] https://www.quora.com/Do-Danes-ride-a-bike-in-heavy-rain https://www.quora.com/Do-Danes-ride-a-bike-in-heavy-rain [2] http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/01/cycling-in-winter-in-copenhagen.html http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/01/cycling-in-winter-in-co...
- imgabe 9y ago
  Adding bike lanes doesn't remove other infrastructure. In most cases we already have all the other infrastructure. Nobody is arguing we should replace every form of transportation with biking.
- pg314 9y ago
  You're right, it stops some. But only a minority. > we would still need the other forms of transportation infrastructure to be able to handle the spillover that occurs when large amount of bikers don't feel like biking. Not necessarily. If you don't have (enough of) that infrastructure, less people will be tempted by it. I imagine the 20% in Copenhagen switch to public transportation because it is well developed and convenient. When I commuted by bicycle, weather wasn't a factor because I had no convenient alternative. Ditto for my colleagues who commuted by bicycle. I agree that the biggest problem is cultural.

matt4077 9y ago

Many transits are actually flexible, and people can react to weather and traffic conditions by postponing or canceling their plans. Often, that's exactly what happens completely independent from the transport options because, for example, any outdoor activity is going to be less fun when it's cold and rainy. If you somehow get people to try, they also discover that biking in really bad conditions is actually quite a lot of fun, provided you are wearing the right clothes. In the cold, your usual jacket is almost always enough because you're exercising anyway, but you'll need the best gloves and hat you can find. The days where I got to work in a snowstorm are actually my most productive :) The real problem in bad weather conditions is that the threat from cars is amplified: it's usually dark in winter, snow and rain further deteriorate visibility, and snow/ice are dangerous because both bikes and cars are less predictable. Bikes are also extremely vulnerable to blocks of hardened snow that often get shoved right onto their usual path by cars.

calt 9y ago

I ride my bicycle all winter. When the weather gets bad, I go a longer route with better bicycle infrastructure where it's safe to go slowly and I'm not being tailed by a car. If I lived in a city where no such route existed I would resort to other means of transportation. Why do you "have to" build more car infrastructure? If traffic gets worse when the weather gets bad then there's even more incentive to bicycle despite the weather. That's the whole point of cycle-first, transit-first, pedestrian-first city planning: Cars don't scale, so stop trying.