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What I have found is there is a tiny minority of people who _hate_ bikers. They tend to pop up and make wild claims about how dangerous bikers are, or how much

• Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  >most bikers observe the traffic laws Not in Philadelphia, at least. I walk everywhere, and racking my brain for bike encounters I can only recall one of maybe 20 instances in which a bike actually stopped at a red light. I can recall at least a third of those instances where bikes were travelling the wrong way on a one way street, and another third with bikes on the sidewalk. That being said, I still think biking is a net positive. It would be better if the roads were designed with bikes in mind. The problem with bad human behavior is almost never the human, but the system that's designed to disincentivize the good behavior.
  • hahamrfunnyguy 9y ago
    I obey traffic laws when it is safe to do so. There are some dangerous interections around here where the bike lane disappears then starts up again. If you ride with the traffic as you're supposed to, cars behind will try to pass in the middle of the intersection. In those cases, sometimes I will ride up on the sidewalk to bypass the dangerous part of the itnersection. I would feel better if there was a separate light in the bike lane that allowed the bikes to proceed first.
    • specialist 9y ago
      This is the correct answer. One of my safety heuristics is "clear the intersection". Sometimes that means jump the light, or follow a car thru a 4-way, or full stop (foot on ground) to clearly signal I'm waiting my turn.
  • jandrese 9y ago
    I obey stoplights on my bike, but it's really punishing sometimes. Bikes don't trip the sensors so the light will ignore you until a car pulls up behind you. This can require three or four cycles of the lights if traffic in your direction is sparse.
    • kingbirdy 9y ago
      I've heard that if you get off and lay the bike on its side, it can help trip the sensor. Usually they're electromagnetic, so on its side the bike is a good inductor, but not in its normal position.
      • jandrese 9y ago
        I'll give this a try. It should be pretty obvious if it works.
    • TeamTeaTime 9y ago
      They sell magnets for motorcycles that are supposed to help trip the light sensor. Might be worth checking out?
    • clort 9y ago
      In the UK at least, you can often see a rubber strip in a square where the sensor has been added to the road (they cut a slot then re-seal it). I try to stop with my wheel rims right on strip and it often triggers the lights. In fact, I wonder sometimes if it actually senses stronger because the metal wheel rim is so much closer as I've had the light turn immediately if I get it just so. (the specific junction I use is only detector triggered, it doesn't time back and forth at all)
      • jandrese 9y ago
        Sadly, the roads around here don't have visible seams where the sensors are. I'm going to have to guess.
    • revelation 9y ago
  • dkhenry 9y ago
    I am from philadelphia as well so I know there are bikes who stop at red lights and stay on the streets. I am not so nieve to think everyone does as I have also run across people who don't obey any traffic laws, but over the last 15 years biking in philly has grown up a lot, and people who used to rationalize their behavior because of lack of infrastructure are changing their ways and coming in line with what is expected of bikers in an urban setting. There will always be those who don't follow the rules, just like there are pedestrians and cars who don't follow the rules, but the situation in that city has gotten so much better, not because new laws were passed or cops cracked down on people running stop signs. The situation got better because more people bike, we put up bike lanes, and drivers got used to bikes being in the street with them.
  • kpmariner 9y ago
    As a biker in Philly - I'll start following the rules of the road when the cars do. I've lived in other cities where I obeyed every traffic law, just like I was in a car. If you do that in Philly, you get run over by a car or hit a jay walking pedestrian.
    • Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      This attitude is exactly why some people hate bikers. It's not productive, if everyone takes this attitude then nothing is going to get better. Step up and be a model for the behavior you want to see around you.
      • kpmariner 9y ago
        I'd rather not die.
        • Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
          Don't be so dramatic. Waiting at red lights isn't going to kill you, in fact it may do the opposite.
          • kpmariner 9y ago
            I do stop at red lights or at least slow down and make sure the way it is safe to cross, that isn't the problem. I just have to constantly jump up onto sidewalks. After stopping at the light - especially if there are cars trying to take a right and the way is clear - I will go before it turns green. I rarely stop at stop signs for four way stops. In general, traffic isn't paying attention. They will swerve blindly into the bike lane to get around other cars to take a right and I can't depend on them to be watching out for me. Once I stop moving I remove the option of swerving out of the way. After my first month of biking here and almost getting hit several times, I just gave up and I ride as aggressively as everyone here drives. I hate it. Biking in New York, Portland or anywhere else I've lived is just a different game. Philly is the most stressful place I've biked.
  • sampo 9y ago
    > > most bikers observe the traffic laws > Not in Philadelphia, at least. This is mostly solvable by building better infrastructure. Just visit Netherlands or Denmark to see how well things could be organized. When the infrastructure is bad, bikers (or people in general) will resort to odd behavior just to get by.
• e40 9y ago
  What I have found is there is a tiny minority of people who _hate_ bikers. I walk 4 miles a day on city sidewalks. The number of times I have to yield to bikers on the sidewalk is disgusting[0]. And some of these bikers are going fast. I once saved a child that was about to run out of a store. I could see, from my vantage point, the biker and the child set for a collision course. I stepped in front of the biker, doing about 20 mph on the sidewalk, to stop them. I got an earful of 4-letter words not a thank you. Of course, there was the 20-something woman killed in a crosswalk by a biker running a light in SF a few years ago. As a pedestrian, I have no love for many drivers or bikers, since they are a constant source of danger. EDIT: [0] I had an argument with a young woman at a light once, where I told her politely that she wasn't supposed to be on the sidewalk. He response? To tell me I was a selfish person not wanting to share the sidewalk.
  • CydeWeys 9y ago
    Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. There's simply no room to do so, as there's so many pedestrians. You end up going more slowly than if you stayed on the street where you belong in nearly all circumstances. Don't be too mad at the cyclists, though. Usually they're doing it because the city isn't providing the proper level of bike infrastructure. With more high quality bike lanes that people feel safe using, you'll see a lot fewer cyclists on sidewalks. It works in Manhattan.
    • santaclaus 9y ago
      > Where do you live? I'm in Manhattan, and people rarely cycle on the sidewalk here. NYPD ticket like crazy for sidewalk biking. Bay Area cops in the cities don’t really ticket for ‘quality of life’ crimes (or even blatant things like busting out car windows and such).
      • tooltalk 9y ago
        My understanding is that NYPD stopped going after frivolous violations after the Eric Garner incident a few years ago. I myself was ticketed ($40) once for wearing headphones on both ears, but I haven't seen cops enforcing such rules recently.
• eternalban 9y ago
  I cycle myself and also enjoy the pedestrian life. Some bikers in the city are irresponsible and ignore traffic laws. The same treatment given to cyclists by some drivers is meted out to pedestrians by some cyclists. Something to do, no doubt, with that pesky issue of power imbalance. In terms of risk assessment as a pedestrian in NYC, I always watch out for (1) MTA bus drivers, (2) any sort of livery, and (3) people on bikes, in that order.
  • gyrgtyn 9y ago
    Uber drivers are working their way up the list for me
    • astura 9y ago
      "Any sort of livery" would include Uber drivers too, right?
• Kalium 9y ago
  As a pedestrian in a dense Californian urban core, I have mixed feelings about bikers. Most bikers are reasonable, sensible bicycle commuters. They stay in the road, wear helmets, and follow laws. No skin off my nose. (ecologically friendly, fights obesity, blah blah blah blah blah) But I've also had multiple encounters with bicyclists who feel they are entitled to switch back and forth between a wheeled vehicle moving significantly above normal walking speeds and a pedestrian who just happens to be on a bicycle. Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them. Not infrequently such enhanced-pedestrians can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. Sometimes with cargo in tow. I have literally never even heard of there being any real consequences for such irresponsible and reckless behavior. I understand why they do it. It's so convenient! Roads certainly aren't always designed for the safety of bicyclists. Yet, these are perhaps less than adequate reasons for irresponsible behavior. More troubling to me is the role bicycles seem to play in the underground economy of the Bay. But that seems more an issue stemming from law enforcement's general disinclination to be interested in bikes and bikers at all.
  • wooter 9y ago
    > But I've also had multiple encounters with bicyclists who feel they are entitled to switch back and forth between a wheeled vehicle moving significantly above normal walking speeds and a pedestrian who just happens to be on a bicycle. Usually with no notice and as is convenient for them. Not infrequently such enhanced-pedestrians can top 20 mph barreling down the sidewalk. because they can. trying to pigeonhole cyclists as either cars or pedestrians is exactly why so many confrontations occur. its not that a cyclists prefer sidewalks as they are horrible to bike on (bumpy, uneven, inconsistent, obstacled), its that on some roads a distracted driver can mean near certain death. Its not irresponsible, its moving a 20 pound object around 100-200 lb people (if pedestrians cant be avoided) instead of holding their own against 3 ton cages. Are there douchey cyclists? yes. But just try getting down one block of SF only in the bike lane. You’ll be stuck behind a ups truck or broken muni for days or pop a tire on a broken bottle some hobo left there or get hit in the face with a door.
    • Kalium 9y ago
      Moving a 20-pound chunk of metal at 20 mph with a 100-200 squishy on top amidst a bunch of unsuspecting and unexpecting other squishies may be less than maximally safe for all squishies involved. We're talking about 40-some-odd times more kinetic energy than your average squishy walking at 3 mph. If you're forced to move into pedestrian space for safety from giant metal cages, the safest option is to actually become a pedestrian. For you and for the other squishies around. I understand that it's slow, uncomfortable, and an unpleasant cycling experience. I appreciate the sacrifice you make for the safety of your fellow squishies. I'd also be happier with Bay biking culture if it didn't consistently make excuses for douchey cyclists.
• fuckbikers 9y ago
  > most bikers observe the traffic laws Funny, this is the exact opposite view from mine. Just last week I was hit by a bike crossing a street with a walk sign. Those assholes wouldn’t stop for you if you paid them. Citations? Forget about it. The streets will just get too dangerous for peds and cars. The majority of bikers I know freely admit, and even take pride in, blowing through stop signs and red lights. “You’re not supposed to stop!”
  • treve 9y ago
    So you had a run-in with an idiot biker last week. If you live in a busy city, that sounds like a pretty good statistic and you probably have been in several dangerous traffic situations with drivers in that same timespan. This strongly feels like confirmation bias to me.
• Ntrails 9y ago
  > Bikes make everything about traffic better, and most bikers observe the traffic laws. Anecdata time. Practically every single day I'll see bikes casually going through red lights, usually moving between pedestrians crossing. Now, I'll freely grant that they're usually paying enough attention to be safe - but you can bet motorbikes (and even cars) could make those very same judgement calls - except they'd get done by cameras/police. Bikes are not obviously safer than a car to me as a pedestrian. They're less predictable, less regulated, and typically less careful of pedestrians. Heck, they also probably travel faster than cars most of the time in central london since the speed limit is 20mph everywhere on the rare occasion there's no traffic. Then of course there's the idiots riding along on the pavement because they can't easily filter through traffic and why should they have to wait in line to move on etc etc. I'm actually pretty solidly pro properly segregated bike lanes, but if I had to rate drivers vs cyclists in a "most likely to have a collision with as a pedestrian" I would easily go with the cyclist.
  • matthewowen 9y ago
    They are obviously safer though, as evidenced by the differing rates of pedestrians injured by cyclists vs cars drivers.
  • justinator 9y ago
    > but if I had to rate drivers vs cyclists in a "most likely to have a collision with as a pedestrian" I would easily go with the cyclist. I don't want to start an argument, but I bet we could look up driver -> pedestrian accidents, and see how many were reported vs cyclists -> pedestrian accidents. Personally, I would much rather get hit by a cyclist as a pedestrian, than a car, and that's simply physics. I've been hit as a pedestrian multiple times by cars (thankfully, at low speed), but never by a bike. I've been hit by a car while riding a bike. You do not want to get hit by a car, while riding a bike. The car always wins. Thankfully, I survived.
  • Nursie 9y ago
    >> if I had to rate drivers vs cyclists in a "most likely to have a collision with as a pedestrian" I would easily go with the cyclist. I'd weight it by, well, mass and associated likelihood of actual harm, personally. I'm a fairly keen (but casual) cyclist. I wouldn't cyclce in London by preference, and I have seen some terrible behaviour by cyclists in London. One day at 9am in the City, I saw a cyclist swearing loudly at everyone and pushing through the crush as people tried to cross Liverpool Street, at a pedestrian crossing, when the lights were red for traffic. Total arsehole. I thought to myself "this is why people think cyclists are all bastards, people like you".
• lettergram 9y ago
  > Bikes make everything about traffic better, and most bikers observe the traffic laws. In California, bikes seemed alright enough. Lane splitting is legal, most use bike lanes, etc. That being said, bikes are supposed to act like a vehicle on the road. I.e. stop at stop signs, and go through the stop signs one at a time. Not once have I ever seen this happen. There's also stopping at lights, which happens usually, but typically they then try to act like pedestrians... Now outside of California, lane splitting is very rarely legal, especially in the Midwest, South, and East. Which means a bike literally has to act 100% like a car, or motorcycle. They can't ride next to a car or pass a car (or line of cars), without moving to another lane. The only exception, is typically if there is a bike lane. So no, most bikes don't follow the laws. The "minority" of poeple who make "wild claims" are the people who have to drive next to them. For the record, I've had 5 bikers hit my car (one got a ticket), at least 2 bikers try to squize by and scratch my car, and 1 idiot try to pass me on the right while I made a right turn. That person got pissed, but cop agreed I was in the right. I've lived in Alameda and drove to SF and Oakland regularly, but half of this happened in Champaign IL (on a college campus, where the bikers don't know how to ride or the laws). In regards to pedestrians, twice I've been hit by a bike where both of us fell down and we were at least shaken. My wife, while in college, was straight up laid out when crossing the street once. The biker needed to be hospitalized, and she was injured (urgent care worked). Point being, i don't think my opinion are wild. Bikers need education, and currently, riding a bike (especially inappropriately) in many places is dangerous for everyone. I agree that bikes can be more effective. However, in practice I think people should get a biking license. Just a 2 hour class, and a simple test. Know the rules, before you kill yourself or hurt others.
  • dkhenry 9y ago
    I don't want to negate your personal experiences, since they sound pretty horrific, but from a data perspective, I can't find a single person who was killed by a cyclist in California since 2014. They might be there, but considering the amount of coverage I am finding of the crash in 2014 and another in 2012 I am led to believe they don't happen that often. In 2015 alone San Francisco reports 24 deaths due to cars. So while you personally might have had some bad experiences, the majority of bikers are following the rules and people are safer as a result of them biking. I would be a huge fan of collecting additional data as I am a firm believer that we would see trend lines down where we invest in infrastructure and where biking become more popular.
• RUG3Y 9y ago
  I love biking and I'm a cyclist myself. But I once lived in a small mountain town where it seemed like a big percentage of the cyclists there had an attitude of entitlement about how they cycled. I've never had so many unsafe encounters with bikes, and at slow speeds too (speed limit was 25mph). I think the point I'm trying to make is that there are probably cultural differences between locations and the people who hate bikers have probably had some awful encounters in the past. I still love cycling and I think it's the best way to get around. It sucks because my city is extremely bike-unfriendly and I don't feel safe biking here. Crappy humans are crappy, no matter the mode of transport they use.
• booleandilemma 9y ago
  As a pedestrian I would have a lot more sympathy for cyclists if they stopped at red lights like cars do. Crossing the street in NYC is more dangerous than it has to be because you always have to be wary of a person on a bike coming out from behind a truck or something.
  • yellowbeard 9y ago
    I don't think the data supports your assertion. Car drivers injure and kill a couple orders of magnitude more pedestrians in NYC than cyclists do.
    • viraptor 9y ago
      You're unlikely to report every time a bike runs into you. Most of the time you won't even be really injured - just some bruises and pain. That's not big enough for statistics, but it still sucks as an experience.
      • yellowbeard 9y ago
        My guess is that's the same for cars (minor injuries go unreported). It's hard to speculate about unreported statistics. The fact remains that for reported statistics, motorists injure far more people than cyclists, thus I say fear of cyclists is irrational.
• gerbilly 9y ago
  > most bikers observe the traffic laws Why the fixation with traffic laws whenever bikes come up? I bike to work and I don't follow the rules, I run reds, blow stop signs, ride on the sidewalks and so on. However, I am courteous and polite to everyone. My goal is to not startle or inconvenience any other user of the road (or sidewalk). Why should I stop at stop signs like a boyscout? That's just false piety. The rules don't keep us safe, because the rules weren't designed in a perfect world. What would help is if everyone just paid attention-texting while driving creates a huge hazard.
  • viraptor 9y ago
    You are why we can't have nice things. If you don't follow the rules, others don't know what to expect from you. That means you are more likely to cause an accident. You're right the rules weren't designed in a perfect world - if it was perfect, nobody would have accidents. Instead we need rules so you know what others are likely to do.
    • gerbilly 9y ago
      Meh, I'm courteous and watching for people as I said above. There is no problem. I found that for many people this concept makes them feel uncomfortable, and that they then explain that discomfort by appealing to rules. I remain unmoved. IMHO we need less rules, not more.