5 ms·

> Immigrants have lower IQs or more criminality. Assuming a reasonable portion of these are refugees(or from third world countries), wouldn’t that be a fair li

> Immigrants have lower IQs or more criminality. Assuming a reasonable portion of these are refugees(or from third world countries), wouldn’t that be a fair link to make? Malnutrition has a clearly established link to lower IQs, hence migrants having a lowe IQ(iirc, Nordic countries have the Flynn effect strongest, so this link might hold true even for immigrants from developed nations).

pnutjam 9y ago
I'm loath to go down this rabbit hole, but wouldn't you also assume that migrants are the most tenacious and smartest, since they managed to survive huge changes, go somewhere new, and try to build something? It seems like migrants are self selecting for smarter people, although IQ tests are notoriously slanted by cultural expectations an societal norms and seem to be a poor method of measuring this.
- dagenleg 9y ago
  I also don't like rabbit holes, but tenacity and smartness are really not the same thing.
  - sangnoir 9y ago
    It's a distinction without a difference in this case because both are positive attributes to have in immigrants (independently or jointly).
    - nnfy 9y ago
      People are weirdly positive about immigration. Are you sure you want tenaceous immigrants if they are criminals and/or seek to change the culture that you and yours live by? I suppose we should differentiaye between illegal and legal immigrants. I'd venture to guess that, on average self selection for intelligence manifests in the form of legal immigration, while the so called "tenaceous" immigrants tend to ignore legal borders. Before anyone accuses me of white supremacy or privilege or such nonsense, my parents were first generation legal immigrants.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Before anyone accuses me of white supremacy or privilege or such nonsense, my parents were first generation legal immigrants. How is that inconsistent with White supremacy or privilege? Because of geographic distribution of races, immigration demand, and per-country allocation of visa quotas, white people often have an advantage in legal immigration and the legal immigration is structured around preference classes which are themselves institutionalized privilege and also correlate with various more general privileges of birth, inheritance, and circumstance.
        nnfy 9y ago
        Did you ever consider that it OK to select people in a way that manifests as privilege? Why is it such a problem to select for culture when determining who can and can not enter your country? Do you mean to imply that it isn't a problem for foreign people to enter a country and effectively change the local ways of life? Especially when the majority of the world's cultures happen to be lived in poverty. And here you've made the assumption that I am white. The race of immigrants is incidental to the distribution of education, wealth, and cultural practices similar to those in the U.S. Also, I love how you're lumping in privilege of white immigrants with that of "white privilege" in the U.S.. It is a remarkably myopic view, as whites are not a powerful minority everywhere. More importantly, the entire philosophy is a tautology when you cherry pick and accuse all walks of white life globally as being privileged. I cannot believe someone is seriously arguing about white privilege as if it is in anyone's best interest to tear down the institutions that seemingly support it. If people like you didnt make certain research topics forbidden, we could answer scientifically what proportion of the average differences we see are racial/genetic/cultural. But instead we bury our heads in the sand and scream "white privilege". You dont even know my ethnicity, you fucking racist. And how deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole? Are Slavs white? Are Jews white? Fuck you and your divisive politicking, and normalized racism.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Did you ever consider that it OK to select people in a way that manifests as privilege? I never said it wasn't. I simply said that your parents being “first generation legal immigrants” does not serve as an effective preemptive rebuttal to accusations of white supremacy or privilege directed at you, because the legal immigration system selects for privilege and includes (and in some sense advantages) whites (and does not systematically exclude whites who might later have offspring who might become white supremacists.) Whether it is good or bad that the system has selective features that create their own privilege classes and align with existing socio-economic privilege is a separate and unrelated question. > And here you've made the assumption that I am white. No, I have not. I've merely pointed out that the preemptive defense against claims of white supremacy and/or privilege that you have offered doesn't actually defend in any way against those claims. I've stated nothing that makes any presumption about your race, which I'm not even remotely interested in. > Also, I love how you're lumping in privilege of white immigrants with that of "white privilege" in the U.S.. It is a remarkably miopic view, as whites are not a powerful minority everywhere. That's true, there are many places (like the US) where they are the dominant and privileged majority rather than any kind of minority. Though, as you note, it's your parents, not you, who are immigrants, so, insofar as the position of the White race would be relevant at all to your experience, it would be the position of the White race in the US, not in some hypothetical place where White privilege does not exist. > I cannot believe someone is seriously arguing about white privilege But you are the one who—preemptively, without provocation—raised the issue of white privilege. All I've done is pointed out that your preemptive defense completely fails to defend against the imagined future attack against which you deployed it. > If people like you didnt make certain research topics forbidden What people have made which research topic forbidden, and in what way are those people like me? You seem to be engaged in a feverish debate against positions you’ve only imagined exist. > You dont even know my ethnicity Nor do I care. > you fucking racist. What, precisely, have I said that is even remotely “racist”? All I've said is that your claim to have first-generation immigrant parents is not any kind of rebuttal to the accusations of white supremacy or privilege against whose imagined future occurence you offered it. > And how deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole? Not as deep as you've already gone on your own, thanks. > Fuck you and your divisive politicking. I'm not sure exactly how pointing out that your statement about your parentage was not even germane to the point you offered it for is “divisive politicking”, but, yeah, whatever.
Symmetry 9y ago
And things like not having iodine in salt. That costs roughly $.05 per person per year but raises average IQ around 4 points. I gave money to the Iodine Global Network last year and I'd encourage others to do likewise. http://www.givewell.org/charities/IGN http://www.givewell.org/charities/IGN And there are also all the other things that public hearth programs do for those of us lucky enough to grow up in wealthy countries which most people don't appreciate nearly enough.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Assuming a reasonable portion of these are refugees(or from third world countries), wouldn’t that be a fair link to make? No. Among other errors, you seem to be assuming that immigrants from third-world countries are a representative sample of the population of the country.

pnutjam 9y ago

I'm loath to go down this rabbit hole, but wouldn't you also assume that migrants are the most tenacious and smartest, since they managed to survive huge changes, go somewhere new, and try to build something? It seems like migrants are self selecting for smarter people, although IQ tests are notoriously slanted by cultural expectations an societal norms and seem to be a poor method of measuring this.

dagenleg 9y ago
I also don't like rabbit holes, but tenacity and smartness are really not the same thing.
- sangnoir 9y ago
  It's a distinction without a difference in this case because both are positive attributes to have in immigrants (independently or jointly).
  - nnfy 9y ago
    People are weirdly positive about immigration. Are you sure you want tenaceous immigrants if they are criminals and/or seek to change the culture that you and yours live by? I suppose we should differentiaye between illegal and legal immigrants. I'd venture to guess that, on average self selection for intelligence manifests in the form of legal immigration, while the so called "tenaceous" immigrants tend to ignore legal borders. Before anyone accuses me of white supremacy or privilege or such nonsense, my parents were first generation legal immigrants.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Before anyone accuses me of white supremacy or privilege or such nonsense, my parents were first generation legal immigrants. How is that inconsistent with White supremacy or privilege? Because of geographic distribution of races, immigration demand, and per-country allocation of visa quotas, white people often have an advantage in legal immigration and the legal immigration is structured around preference classes which are themselves institutionalized privilege and also correlate with various more general privileges of birth, inheritance, and circumstance.
      - nnfy 9y ago
        Did you ever consider that it OK to select people in a way that manifests as privilege? Why is it such a problem to select for culture when determining who can and can not enter your country? Do you mean to imply that it isn't a problem for foreign people to enter a country and effectively change the local ways of life? Especially when the majority of the world's cultures happen to be lived in poverty. And here you've made the assumption that I am white. The race of immigrants is incidental to the distribution of education, wealth, and cultural practices similar to those in the U.S. Also, I love how you're lumping in privilege of white immigrants with that of "white privilege" in the U.S.. It is a remarkably myopic view, as whites are not a powerful minority everywhere. More importantly, the entire philosophy is a tautology when you cherry pick and accuse all walks of white life globally as being privileged. I cannot believe someone is seriously arguing about white privilege as if it is in anyone's best interest to tear down the institutions that seemingly support it. If people like you didnt make certain research topics forbidden, we could answer scientifically what proportion of the average differences we see are racial/genetic/cultural. But instead we bury our heads in the sand and scream "white privilege". You dont even know my ethnicity, you fucking racist. And how deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole? Are Slavs white? Are Jews white? Fuck you and your divisive politicking, and normalized racism.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Did you ever consider that it OK to select people in a way that manifests as privilege? I never said it wasn't. I simply said that your parents being “first generation legal immigrants” does not serve as an effective preemptive rebuttal to accusations of white supremacy or privilege directed at you, because the legal immigration system selects for privilege and includes (and in some sense advantages) whites (and does not systematically exclude whites who might later have offspring who might become white supremacists.) Whether it is good or bad that the system has selective features that create their own privilege classes and align with existing socio-economic privilege is a separate and unrelated question. > And here you've made the assumption that I am white. No, I have not. I've merely pointed out that the preemptive defense against claims of white supremacy and/or privilege that you have offered doesn't actually defend in any way against those claims. I've stated nothing that makes any presumption about your race, which I'm not even remotely interested in. > Also, I love how you're lumping in privilege of white immigrants with that of "white privilege" in the U.S.. It is a remarkably miopic view, as whites are not a powerful minority everywhere. That's true, there are many places (like the US) where they are the dominant and privileged majority rather than any kind of minority. Though, as you note, it's your parents, not you, who are immigrants, so, insofar as the position of the White race would be relevant at all to your experience, it would be the position of the White race in the US, not in some hypothetical place where White privilege does not exist. > I cannot believe someone is seriously arguing about white privilege But you are the one who—preemptively, without provocation—raised the issue of white privilege. All I've done is pointed out that your preemptive defense completely fails to defend against the imagined future attack against which you deployed it. > If people like you didnt make certain research topics forbidden What people have made which research topic forbidden, and in what way are those people like me? You seem to be engaged in a feverish debate against positions you’ve only imagined exist. > You dont even know my ethnicity Nor do I care. > you fucking racist. What, precisely, have I said that is even remotely “racist”? All I've said is that your claim to have first-generation immigrant parents is not any kind of rebuttal to the accusations of white supremacy or privilege against whose imagined future occurence you offered it. > And how deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole? Not as deep as you've already gone on your own, thanks. > Fuck you and your divisive politicking. I'm not sure exactly how pointing out that your statement about your parentage was not even germane to the point you offered it for is “divisive politicking”, but, yeah, whatever.

Symmetry 9y ago

And things like not having iodine in salt. That costs roughly $.05 per person per year but raises average IQ around 4 points. I gave money to the Iodine Global Network last year and I'd encourage others to do likewise. http://www.givewell.org/charities/IGN http://www.givewell.org/charities/IGN And there are also all the other things that public hearth programs do for those of us lucky enough to grow up in wealthy countries which most people don't appreciate nearly enough.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Assuming a reasonable portion of these are refugees(or from third world countries), wouldn’t that be a fair link to make? No. Among other errors, you seem to be assuming that immigrants from third-world countries are a representative sample of the population of the country.