4 ms·

It's a similar situation in Philly, every day I watch bikers run red lights and stop signs or speeding in a 25. I've yet to see a cop pull over someone on a bi

It's a similar situation in Philly, every day I watch bikers run red lights and stop signs or speeding in a 25. I've yet to see a cop pull over someone on a bike

francisofascii 9y ago
It doesn't make sense to penalize bikes the same way as cars. A car is deadly, a bike isn't. It would be like assigning the same penalty to throwing a punch and a gun shot.
- kazinator 9y ago
  You can definitely kill someone with a bicycle. And a punch. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-gets-6-years-for-sucker-punch-1.893544 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-ge... http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/10/stanley-park-pedestrian-dies-injuries-hit-cyclist/ http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/10/stanley-park-pedestrian-d... This is just recent local news from my neck of the woods, off the top of my head.
  - antisthenes 9y ago
    Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it has anywhere the same likelihood of happening. Not even sure what argument you're trying to make. This is why concealed guns are banned in most states and fists aren't.
    - jff 9y ago
      > Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it has anywhere the same likelihood of happening. Not even sure what argument you're trying to make. Ok, go stand in the street and I'll hit you with a bicycle. I can come to the emergency room later and you can tell me how it didn't hurt that much. > This is why concealed guns are banned in most states False, by the way. They just require a license... like a car.
    - kazinator 9y ago
      The fist cannot be banned because it is a configuration of the human hand.
    - kazinator 9y ago
      You're likely confusing the (intuitively low) probability of someone being hit by a cyclist with the conditional probability of someone sustaining a serious injury or being killed given they've been hit by a cyclist.
crispyambulance 9y ago
Philly here as well. There are practical reasons for bikes going through red lights and stop signs. 1. We want to clear the intersection and get to the other side ahead of the traffic. Car-bike accidents occur most often at intersections rather than mid-block. Getting through the intersection before the light turns green is a way to relieve worry about getting right hooked or sideswiped by a car. Cross traffic, if any, is visible and avoidable. Cyclists choose to "risk it" because the real risk at intersections comes from oncoming and in-flow traffic. 2. It takes a lot of energy to start up again from a dead stop. Average speed will drop A LOT from stopping unnecessarily, moreover, it is far more tiring to get back up to speed. It means more sweat and discomfort. Some people feel, especially on forums such as this, that all traffic laws need to be observed "to the letter" by every vehicle including bicycles. That's overly strict and impractical. It is why cops almost never "pull over" cyclists who run stop-signs. There is no good reason to do so unless the cyclist was deliberately precipitating emergency evasive maneuvers from motorists.
- eertami 9y ago
  >There are practical reasons for bikes going through red lights I'd hardly call "I have a desire to be killed by a car" or "I harbour a blatant disregard of the saftey and wellbeing of those around me" practical reasons. The laws are written for the protection of everyone, not solely to inconvenience you. Stop signs aren't something we really have in my country, but cycling through red lights has been the cause of death and injury for both cyclists and pedestrians. I find it horrifying that you're so quick to disregard even the most fundamental rules of the road and worse yet aggressively defend your anti-social behaviour.
  - crispyambulance 9y ago
    > quick to disregard even the most fundamental rules of the road and worse yet aggressively defend your anti-social behaviour. Such behavior is, actually, the norm. It has been going on since the dawn of traffic control. Cars and bikes are intrinsically different. Traffic laws can't address everything and are broken (or deliberately not enforced by police) for pragmatic reasons all the time.
InitialLastName 9y ago
When's the last time you saw a driver doing 25 or under in a 25 zone? I ask because my commute has drivers who will threaten your life for doing the speed limit.
antisthenes 9y ago
> It's a similar situation in Philly, every day I watch bikers run red lights and stop signs or speeding in a 25. I've yet to see a vehicle not speeding in a 25. It's honestly infuriating when people are actually going 24 in a 25, because despite these limits being in a mostly urban area, there are almost zero pedestrians there and it's a 3 lane wide road in good condition. How much can a bike possibly be speeding in a 25 to be a danger? 28mph? Come on. Running a red light is a big no-no however.
revelation 9y ago
You see bikers speeding in a 25mph? Are all the bikers in your city national-level endurance athletes on TT bikes? It's so sad that people born into a world where cars are everywhere just have no concept anymore of what is human. You put a random dude on a bike and they are never going to average 20 mph, struggle to even get to 18 mph. Barreling up 15% inclines in SF at 30 mph is not normal.

It's a similar situation in Philly, every day I watch bikers run red lights and stop signs or speeding in a 25. I've yet to see a cop pull over someone on a bike

francisofascii 9y ago

It doesn't make sense to penalize bikes the same way as cars. A car is deadly, a bike isn't. It would be like assigning the same penalty to throwing a punch and a gun shot.

kazinator 9y ago
You can definitely kill someone with a bicycle. And a punch. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-gets-6-years-for-sucker-punch-1.893544 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-ge... http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/10/stanley-park-pedestrian-dies-injuries-hit-cyclist/ http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/10/stanley-park-pedestrian-d... This is just recent local news from my neck of the woods, off the top of my head.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it has anywhere the same likelihood of happening. Not even sure what argument you're trying to make. This is why concealed guns are banned in most states and fists aren't.
  - jff 9y ago
    > Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it has anywhere the same likelihood of happening. Not even sure what argument you're trying to make. Ok, go stand in the street and I'll hit you with a bicycle. I can come to the emergency room later and you can tell me how it didn't hurt that much. > This is why concealed guns are banned in most states False, by the way. They just require a license... like a car.
  - kazinator 9y ago
    The fist cannot be banned because it is a configuration of the human hand.
  - kazinator 9y ago
    You're likely confusing the (intuitively low) probability of someone being hit by a cyclist with the conditional probability of someone sustaining a serious injury or being killed given they've been hit by a cyclist.

crispyambulance 9y ago

Philly here as well. There are practical reasons for bikes going through red lights and stop signs. 1. We want to clear the intersection and get to the other side ahead of the traffic. Car-bike accidents occur most often at intersections rather than mid-block. Getting through the intersection before the light turns green is a way to relieve worry about getting right hooked or sideswiped by a car. Cross traffic, if any, is visible and avoidable. Cyclists choose to "risk it" because the real risk at intersections comes from oncoming and in-flow traffic. 2. It takes a lot of energy to start up again from a dead stop. Average speed will drop A LOT from stopping unnecessarily, moreover, it is far more tiring to get back up to speed. It means more sweat and discomfort. Some people feel, especially on forums such as this, that all traffic laws need to be observed "to the letter" by every vehicle including bicycles. That's overly strict and impractical. It is why cops almost never "pull over" cyclists who run stop-signs. There is no good reason to do so unless the cyclist was deliberately precipitating emergency evasive maneuvers from motorists.

eertami 9y ago
>There are practical reasons for bikes going through red lights I'd hardly call "I have a desire to be killed by a car" or "I harbour a blatant disregard of the saftey and wellbeing of those around me" practical reasons. The laws are written for the protection of everyone, not solely to inconvenience you. Stop signs aren't something we really have in my country, but cycling through red lights has been the cause of death and injury for both cyclists and pedestrians. I find it horrifying that you're so quick to disregard even the most fundamental rules of the road and worse yet aggressively defend your anti-social behaviour.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  > quick to disregard even the most fundamental rules of the road and worse yet aggressively defend your anti-social behaviour. Such behavior is, actually, the norm. It has been going on since the dawn of traffic control. Cars and bikes are intrinsically different. Traffic laws can't address everything and are broken (or deliberately not enforced by police) for pragmatic reasons all the time.

InitialLastName 9y ago

When's the last time you saw a driver doing 25 or under in a 25 zone? I ask because my commute has drivers who will threaten your life for doing the speed limit.

antisthenes 9y ago

> It's a similar situation in Philly, every day I watch bikers run red lights and stop signs or speeding in a 25. I've yet to see a vehicle not speeding in a 25. It's honestly infuriating when people are actually going 24 in a 25, because despite these limits being in a mostly urban area, there are almost zero pedestrians there and it's a 3 lane wide road in good condition. How much can a bike possibly be speeding in a 25 to be a danger? 28mph? Come on. Running a red light is a big no-no however.

revelation 9y ago

You see bikers speeding in a 25mph? Are all the bikers in your city national-level endurance athletes on TT bikes? It's so sad that people born into a world where cars are everywhere just have no concept anymore of what is human. You put a random dude on a bike and they are never going to average 20 mph, struggle to even get to 18 mph. Barreling up 15% inclines in SF at 30 mph is not normal.