14 ms·

When Citi Bikes Are Faster Than Taxis in New York City

204 points by lil_tee 9y ago

jlebrech 9y ago
what citi bikes need is a reward system to get riders to transfer bikes from plenty to empty areas. [edit] i meant to use Citi bike as a generic term.
- jwong_ 9y ago
  They do have this. It's called "bike angels", and it lets you earn points based on how empty or full a station is. They also have bonuses on special holidays or rainy days.
  - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
    Sounded interesting, so I looked it up - https://bikeangels.citibikenyc.com/ https://bikeangels.citibikenyc.com/ - seems like a well designed incentive system.
- klodolph 9y ago
  Citi Bikes already does this.
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    impressed. sorry i don't live in NYC, we just have a similar system here.
- btkramer9 9y ago
  In London they have teams of people unloading truckloads of bikes to places where all the lots are empty. I don't know how cost effective it is but it seems to be working pretty well
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    same here, but it's nice to know you're needed.
marak830 9y ago
Do people use bikes to get anywhere faster? I would use one to save on emissions and/or get some much needed exercis edit: so many replies! I guess I stand corrected, although the more I think about it, the less I'm surprised. I live in Japan, obviously known for its public transport. Interesting to note though once I travel abroad, thanks for the replies everyone :-)
- VeejayRampay 9y ago
  Traffic congestion and red lights often make it so that it's actually just as fast to go anywhere on a bike (at least in major cities, I know for a fact that it is in Paris at least). Though, it really depends on the ability to go between lanes and pass through red lights (which is actually legal in Paris on some corners if you take a left/right turn).
- dschep 9y ago
  Absolutely! I'm in DC, not NYC, but.. Driving means: walk 1-3 blocks to my car, drive it in slow(and extremely variable based on time) traffic, circle the block a half dozen times to find a parking space, probably having to pay. Biking on the other hand means: I walk outside, bike where I'm going at the same speed every day, and lock up when I get there. I've frequently beaten my friends when going places in the city and I have my bike and don't wanna leave it behind so I bike and they cab/drive.
- leoedin 9y ago
  My commute in London is faster by bike than any other mode of transport. The distance I cover in 30 minutes of cycling would take 45 minutes to drive (most of that stuck in traffic) and around 50 minutes on public transport. During the day cycling is very frequently the fastest way to get somewhere. Driving is also incredibly variable - one broken down bus or accident and you're looking at a 30 minute delay. Cycling is incredibly consistent - you do get slowed down by more traffic, but only slightly.
- aidos 9y ago
  Definitely. I've cycled in London for a long time (though I'm slightly out of town now) and depending on the time of day, it can be the fastest way to get across the city. There are a few factors to consider. There are places you can go by bike that aren't always available to cars (cycle paths through parks, for example). You'll get from the exact starting point to exact finishing point. And general congestion will take care of the rest. In a slightly different way, where I am now, the fastest way to get to work is to cycle 20 minutes to a more convenient train station and take the train in. The alternative is a) much less reliable and b) takes an extra 45 minutes (minimum).
dr_ 9y ago
As a pedestrian crossing the straw in NYC, you will typically wait for cars to stop, then walk about 2/3 of the way into the street, then peer into the bike lane to make sure no bikes are coming, then complete your crossing. Most of the bikers, from my experience, do not follow rules such as stopping at a Stop sign or for pedestrians or at their own bike designated stop lights. It may be nice to bike in the cities parks or on its outskirts, but it's a dangerous proposition in the city itself. NYC is an urban jungle with a web of cars pedestrians, delivery trucks, garbage trucks and construction zones all over. As a biker, if you are not going to follow the rules, you are going to find yourself in trouble at some point.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  And if you do follow the rules on a bike you often end up sitting in traffic with the cars anyway.
  - jablan 9y ago
    Exactly, because both the rules and, even worse, the infrastructure are made for cars, and only shoehorned for bikes afterwards.
  - bpyne 9y ago
    Even following the rules you still save time because you're at the top of the queue with the lead car every time. When I bike into work I never have to wait 3-4 turns of the light to proceed. Yes, I do follow the rules: lights, stop signs, etc. Whether driving my car or riding my bike, I'm sharing a resource and we are all trying to get somewhere. It's only fair.
- ChrisBland 9y ago
  A million times this! I live in Chicago and am an avid biker (been doored by a cab, right of passage i guess?) I am one of the few who stops at stop signs and slows down or stops at cross walks to watch for pedestrians. I attend my local alderman's meetings to push for more protected bike lanes which we are now getting, but my fellow bikers are making us all look bad wrt following the rules of the road. I can't tell you how many times I've almost gotten hit crossing a cross walk by a biker flying down the street without looking or stopping for pedestrians. We are now at the point where bikes are truly getting to share the road, but we are forgetting that we don't just share with cars, but with pedestrians as well. That fact seems to elude most bikers and they are operating like they have total impunity when riding. I'd love to see cops out ticketing bikers for blowing through cross walks with pedestrians present, I'd love to see big fines for running red lights; lord knows our city needs the revenue.
L_Rahman 9y ago
In virtually every crosstown route during working hours in lower Manhattan. It's not even close, Citi Bikes are 1.5x - 2.5x faster than a cab.
ghaff 9y ago
Or... walk? For a lot of trips in central Manhattan, walking ten or twenty uptown blocks or cross-town for a few blocks is often the easiest way to get from point A to B. Personally, I don't really bike but I'm not sure the last time I felt I needed to take a cab in NYC.
JohnnyConatus 9y ago
When you're trying to get to the morgue? I'm sympathetic to cyclists - I am one myself - but the average CitiBike rider rides like an 8 year old who just got their first bike.
- deleted 9y ago
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- xapata 9y ago
  Many people predicted citibikes would be dangerous, but they were surprisingly accident-free for quite some time. You might have the impression that they're badly ridden, but the data suggests they're actually safe. There might be a bit of memory tricks going on -- you remember the things that stand out, but not the boring riders stopping at the light.
astannard 9y ago
I have been comparing biking and driving to work in Derby (UK) for my 7 mile commute. Biking can be quicker for me depending on traffic. I have just ordered an ebike that should shift the odds more in favour of this bike. I always feel better having commuted on bike though
- verelo 9y ago
  I wish you luck with the ebike, but personally i feel like they're problematic. It could just be our roads here though; the issue I find is that they're too fast for bike lanes [risk to cyclists], but too slow for the road [cars frequently pass them at higher speeds and very close-by]. It seems like everyone is frustrated and the ebikers are just being pushed around by everyone.
  - detaro 9y ago
    What kind of e-bikes do people have in Canada? Electric-assist types, or ones with a throttle? In Europe the assist-type is way more common, limited to 25 km/h and at least in Germany the stereotypical user is an elder person that now suddenly can go a bit faster and go comfortably up hills.
    - verelo 9y ago
      I've seen both, the Electric-assist seem less common [or maybe just harder to identify?]. The ones that I see as not really fitting in are the larger ones that look kind of like an electric Vespa.
      - detaro 9y ago
        Ah, yes, those really don't mix well with neither bike lanes nor cars.
      - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
        They seem to be the worst of both worlds, I think there has been a lot of controversy about them using bike lanes in The Netherlands lately.
verelo 9y ago
Not much love for biking here; You'd almost think that most of the people on Hacker News are from Californian suburbs... Seriously though, biking in cities is great. It's one of those critical mass problems where the more people that do it the better the infrastructure gets, the more aware drivers become and there is a herd mentality where bikers tend to flow together making them more predictable and therefore safer to be around. I bike and drive in Toronto [i probably drive more than bike, depends on the weather and somewhat the mood i'm in], both have big up and downsides, just be considerate to everyone which ever you're taking part in! Edit: I forgot to say, those Citi bikes in NYC [Bikeshare in Toronto, Santander in London] have a special cohort of people riding them. The bikes are so slow [heavy!!!], and the riders are casual riders. I love that it gets people moving, and I use them from time to time, but damn the whole experience of riding next to one is scary even as another biker.
- rockostrich 9y ago
  Your edit is my one problem with the bike sharing programs in cities. As an everyday commuter if I see someone on their own bike it's usually a pretty safe assumption that they're aware of their surroundings. The casual riders make a lot of dangerous decisions because of their lack of awareness and I usually just end up waiting for some space to pass them as quickly as possible.
  - jablan 9y ago
    You should ask your local government for dedicated biking infrastructure then.
    - matt4077 9y ago
      Dedicated bike lanes have actually been going out of style. Especially those using half of the sidewalk with only symbolic separation from pedestrians are plagued by the inattentiveness of pedestrians, and are usually too narrow to pass other bikes. The pavement is also at higher risk of damage, because these lanes are usually right next to any trees lining the roads, and their roots quickly create breaks, bumps and potholes. What's now preferred is a marked lane in the rightmost car lane, or to just dedicate a complete lane to bikes.
dokein 9y ago
I would love to bike, but the major issue is that every single person I know who's biked for more than 1 year has gotten into some type of accident (around 10 people), whether car, car door, or poorly maintained road. These are all 30s and work-at-the-office types so maybe they're not the most coordinated, but they are also not doing stupid shit.
- thesmallestcat 9y ago
  .
  - dokein 9y ago
    My concern is that everyone I know has had an accident, even if minor. It sounds like you have had accidents too. Although we can go slower, be more aware, etc., this suggests that the fundamental issue is structural -- if every single nurse in your hospital as accidentally administered the wrong medication, you should improve the identity verification process rather than just sending them for more training.
    - thesmallestcat 9y ago
      .
      - dokein 9y ago
        By nature of it being an accident, it seems hard to control whether it's a minor scrape or more serious injury. In any case, every person has their own risk tolerance -- hard to say what is objectively correct -- and subjectively it's too high for me.
        deleted 9y ago
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        bluntfang 9y ago
        Maybe the problem is with the word accident? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4
prohor 9y ago
Rally nice analysis. It is a pity that open access to data like this is still exception, not a rule. I wish to have such data for my city.
jdanp 9y ago
I live in the East Village and am convinced that cyclists in New York City have no regard for human life. The NYPD seems to be cracking down on their lawless behavior, but I think a push away from cycling and towards ride-sharing (a la Via) is the solution for our transit issue. With our broken subway system and high volume of cabs, ubers, etc; it is clear that New York is a driving city - but not a parking city.
- ghaff 9y ago
  The NYC subway system is far from the nicest in the world and it has a lot of infrastructure problems--in part because of its age. But a system that moves about 6 million people on the average weekday can't be all that broken.
  - jdanp 9y ago
    You're right, my use of the term 'broken' was a bit harsh but this summer was particularly bad in terms of track fires, delays, station shutdowns, and persistent subway signal system problems, so much so that 'fixing the subway' has become a major talking point of the mayoral race.
    - deevolution 9y ago
      No reason to appologize for being "too harsh" at all. There is no reason to tollerate the state of this system. The nyc subway is hanging on by threads. By modern standards it deffinitely is broken and there are a whole lot of bugs to fix. The whole thing is running on ancient infrastructure. Saying otherwise will allow it to coninue as it is.
    - pcsanwald 9y ago
      I don't think you're being too harsh, but the point is that a lot of the worst problems are relatively recent: This past year has apparently been horrendous, but I lived in NYC from 2000-2016 and the subway was consistently way more reliable than cab for getting anyplace, especially during the workday in midtown. Every time I took a cab to an important meeting in manhattan, I regretted the decision. Whereas I've taken the subway to hundreds of meetings/appointments and really only gotten delayed impactfully a handful of times. No doubt that things have declined significantly in the past year, but I do think that saying NYC is a "driving city" is overstating.
mosselman 9y ago
Being from the Netherlands I am not at all surprised by this. It is very well known here that bikes get you places quicker than cars do. Especially within cities you can go to the city center without having to worry about finding a parking spot and paying a huge amount of money when you do. I have lived in New York and have driven a car there and based on that experience I wouldn't really find driving a bike there problematic. I have also lived in Brussels (Belgium) and used citi bikes there and was generally happy about the experience, even though the Belgian roads are a lot more dangerous due to the fact that Belgians don't have the slightest clue about anything that has to do with driving or traffic: they can't drive cars, they can't plan roads properly, they can't maintain them, etc. New York is grid based so traffic situations are easier to oversee.
xyzelement 9y ago
I am a zealous citibike convert here in NYC and I'll take one over a taxi any day but I think there's a systematic error in these numbers. I assume the taxi times are pickup to drop-off (ie encompasses the entire trip) while bike are station to station so there is walking time that's not accounted for on either end of the bike trip. There are times where the nearest station doesn't have bikes or free docks so the walk may be non trivia and add up to more than the 5 minutes median difference for cross town. On the other hand sometimes it takes a while to catch a cab and that's not included in the data either so perhaps it averages out. The author is right, bikes are great for reducing variability (on the bike you can get around most obstruction, even if it means walking the bike on a sidewalk for a quarter of a block while the taxi gets stuck) The one advice I disagree with is taking the bike when the President is in town. Trump was here last week for the UN and with all the street closures, detours and crazed drivers, biking was much more dangerous than usual.
francisofascii 9y ago
IMHO, for the most ideal city experience, transit options should be prioritized in this order: 1) pedestrians, 2) buses, 3) bikes, 4) cars. Biking being faster than motoring is excellent news towards this ideal.
- TylerE 9y ago
  The way it is being achieved is disgraceful. "'The oaks are just too greedy / We will make them give us light' / Now there's no more oak oppression / For they passed a noble law / And the trees are all kept equal / By hatchet, / Axe, / And saw"
- revelation 9y ago
  You got 2 and 3 switched up. It's very simple: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5j6rPlU4AEizP6.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5j6rPlU4AEizP6.jpg:large
  - bluntfang 9y ago
    kneejerk, i tend to agree..but bussing is really necessary to for people with accessibility issues.
  - francisofascii 9y ago
    My reasoning was a bus can transport many more people than one bike, but sure, I am agreeable to switching 2 and 3.
    - T-hawk 9y ago
      It's not just the quantity; it's the overall efficiency, of quantity compared to the cost of infrastructure and operations. Buses hold more but cost a lot more to build and drive, including stations and maintenance facilities, and externalities like emissions and gridlock. Bike infrastructure is cheap and operations are free to a city.
nashashmi 9y ago
I cannot help but witness the effects of traffic calming: > a taxi trip in 2017 took 17% longer than the same trip in 2009. > The same regression applied to Citi Bikes shows no such slowdown over time, in fact Citi Bikes got slightly faster. Obviously when you dedicate more street space from cars towards bikes, bikes get faster and cars get slower. The article goes to mention this, but also downplays it. What the article seems to ignore on a major scale is the effect of traffic calming, or traffic impeding. By civilizing traffic to the appropriate rules and procedures via hardscapes, you make vehicle travel more unbearable and a test of patience. If the intentions behind doing this weren't derived from anti-car sentiments, I could respect this move. But Janet Sadik-Khan is a bicycling enthusiast and after her appointment, car travel became really bad.
- addicted 9y ago
  Actually the article points to the fact that other studies have shown that bikes have either no effect, or improve traffic speeds, because one of the biggest misconceptions in traffic planning is the solution is to increase roadways, when in reality, the answer is usually to reduce. Actual relevant reasons may be the growth of Uber, the change of speed limits, and/or the increase in population.
- macNchz 9y ago
  As I understand it traffic has gotten demonstrably worse in NYC over the past few years at least in part because there are so many cars on the road driving for Uber et al: http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/02/27/its-settled-uber-is-making-nyc-gridlock-worse/ http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/02/27/its-settled-uber-is-ma... There have been some pedestrian safety changes made in Manhattan but traffic is really the biggest impediment. Most cars are moving less than the speed limit much of the day because of all the traffic.
- dionidium 9y ago
  If the intentions behind doing this weren't derived from anti-car sentiments New York City isn't nearly anti-car enough! It's the only place in the U.S. that has any chance of reclaiming its streets for pedestrians and it should absolutely do so. Those who like to drive can choose literally any other U.S. city and, without exception, it'll cater to that preference. But New York City should be implementing all kinds of car-hostile policies, including an all-out ban on private vehicles in some parts of Manhattan.
Tepix 9y ago
Are electric scooters and other small electric vehicles such as balancing boards or the Qingbu pocket scooter (a ripoff of the Walkcar?) legal in the US? They seem to be getting cheap now (saw the Xiaomi M365 for less than $330). Unfortunately in Germany you may not yet use them on public roads and sidewalks. I can see them having an advantage over bikes (and cars) because you can just fold them up and carry them with you into a cab, the subway, your office or your home.
cloudwizard 9y ago
If you are commuting on Caltrain in SF, it is way easier to take the citibikes. Only a relatively short distance in SOMA and way faster. When I went south to the tech campuses, I brought my own bike on the train. There are a few bikers that cause problems. I was driving in Palo Alto yesterday and a cyclist insisted on using the car lane instead of a perfectly good bike lane.
staticelf 9y ago
I'm from Sweden and have been biking in NYC as a tourist. I must say, it is one of the most scariest places I have biked in my life. Huge cars, almost no biking lanes, a lot of people and other traffic. I admit I was also a bit drunk but still, in Stockholm we have biking lanes almost everywhere and you feel a lot safer. Also there is a lot more people that use the bike when you give them a lane to bike on. Please, create more biking lanes. It's better for the cars, it is better for pedestrians, it's better for the environment and public health.
- anthonybsd 9y ago
  > Huge cars, almost no biking lanes, a lot of people and other traffic. When were you in NYC? We have more bike lanes than Stockholm these days. :) Proof: http://www.amny.com/transit/new-york-city-to-reach-1-000-miles-of-bike-lanes-on-tuesday-1.10873995 http://www.amny.com/transit/new-york-city-to-reach-1-000-mil... vs http://www.fourteenislands.com/bicycle-paths/ http://www.fourteenislands.com/bicycle-paths/
  - arrmn 9y ago
    According to Google the Stockholm area is 188km^2 with 760km bike lanes and NY is 789km^2 with 1609km bike lanes.
  - mikk14 9y ago
    Looking just at the installed capacity isn't a great way, if you do not control for overall area. Better to compare the relative space dedicated to cars, trains and bikes. Couldn't find data for Stockholm, but here is a NY-Copenhagen comparison: black lines are the relative NYC allocation spaces, orange bars is Copenhagen. Relatively speaking, Copenhagen has much more biking space: https://whatthestreet.moovellab.com/newyork/results?bike=0.16&rail=0.12&car=0.72 https://whatthestreet.moovellab.com/newyork/results?bike=0.1...
    - anthonybsd 9y ago
      Copenhagen is #1 on the list of bike-friendly cities. Of course it's going to outpace NYC.
hamburglar1 9y ago
As a NYer it's pretty clear that going cross town on a bike or skate board will be faster than a car, especially during rush hour. Moving through tight areas like Soho and Greenwich village, I would say that a skateboard is probably the fastest. I still can't tell if a skate board is safer than a bike. Absolutely more fun though
jonandersense 9y ago
Been biking in both Los Angeles & New York as my commute. In LA driving took 1-2h while biking took 1h. In my experience it's been faster for my commute, however there's still many days where there are no bikes where I live (UWS). I can highly recommend trying out the Citi bike if you live in New York, it's so cheap and many of the companies pays for it.
CodeSheikh 9y ago
NYC is not a bike friendly city at all (some parts of certain boroughs might be). Biking in NYC is also a quick ticket to ER room. I have already eye witnessed multiple altercations and accidents of bicyclists in this city. Scary.
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mrich 9y ago
I'm in Shanghai at the moment and it's definitely the same here, especially during peak hours. Lots of bikes for rent here too, you can see them on many sidewalks, not unusual to see a few hundred in a row. Students and office workers alike are using them. Ofo and Mobike are the big players here, they are also expanding to other continents now :)
bob_theslob646 9y ago
What is the life expectancy of getting in a taxi and getting to your destination vs getting on a bike? Probability of surviving if you get hit by a car: being in both? The other thing this article failed to mention is that NYC implemented slower speeds for cars. Overall this is true, but safety should be a factor and bikers nor drivers obey laws. Make the fines super expensive and use that money to educate people about the rules of the road. Drives me bonkers that they collect so much money in tickets from drivers but do not educate the people about it because they want the revenue haha. So stupid.
galkk 9y ago
It might work in NY, worked well for me in central London, but I'd like to see how the people will prefer that in cities that are built on the hills, like San Francisco or Seattle.
ccho 9y ago
As a daily commuter in NYC, often on Citibike, one of the most concerning discoveries has been the ability (if you are willing to pedal hard) to consistently beat out ambulances over stretches of 15 blocks -- specifically without running red lights on the bike whereas the ambulance is going through them -- due to the slow speed in which traffic clears a path for them. I really wish the streets were not so congested with vehicular traffic to prevent emergency vehicles from getting to their destinations.
skatestuff 9y ago
I ride a bike in NYC. If you accept being sweaty in the summer and risk getting hit in certain areas, then you'll have a blast riding. Otherwise it's a burden. In my opinion, biking is one of the fastest forms of transportation when traveling <40 blocks. Also, Citi Bikes are lunky. I hate riding them.
anonu 9y ago
From the article: > The same regression applied to Citi Bikes shows no such slowdown over time, in fact Citi Bikes got slightly faster. I suspect this is mainly due to better bikes. I've been a yearly subscriber to Citibike since the very beginning - and I can attest that the quality of the system and the bikes has improved tremendously since inception. Quality of the bikes is judged in part by their durability and sturdiness of individual items - but also the gearing. The newest bikes have the NuVinci continuous variable gear system - which is amazing to use but also allows you to get into a lot higher gear than the original bikes.
carlhjerpe 9y ago
What they didn't take into account is that riding a bike in a crowded city is a task for suicidal people only!

204 points by lil_tee 9y ago

what citi bikes need is a reward system to get riders to transfer bikes from plenty to empty areas. [edit] i meant to use Citi bike as a generic term.

jwong_ 9y ago
They do have this. It's called "bike angels", and it lets you earn points based on how empty or full a station is. They also have bonuses on special holidays or rainy days.
- michaelbuckbee 9y ago
  Sounded interesting, so I looked it up - https://bikeangels.citibikenyc.com/ https://bikeangels.citibikenyc.com/ - seems like a well designed incentive system.
klodolph 9y ago
Citi Bikes already does this.
- jlebrech 9y ago
  impressed. sorry i don't live in NYC, we just have a similar system here.
btkramer9 9y ago
In London they have teams of people unloading truckloads of bikes to places where all the lots are empty. I don't know how cost effective it is but it seems to be working pretty well
- jlebrech 9y ago
  same here, but it's nice to know you're needed.

marak830 9y ago

Do people use bikes to get anywhere faster? I would use one to save on emissions and/or get some much needed exercis edit: so many replies! I guess I stand corrected, although the more I think about it, the less I'm surprised. I live in Japan, obviously known for its public transport. Interesting to note though once I travel abroad, thanks for the replies everyone :-)

VeejayRampay 9y ago
Traffic congestion and red lights often make it so that it's actually just as fast to go anywhere on a bike (at least in major cities, I know for a fact that it is in Paris at least). Though, it really depends on the ability to go between lanes and pass through red lights (which is actually legal in Paris on some corners if you take a left/right turn).
dschep 9y ago
Absolutely! I'm in DC, not NYC, but.. Driving means: walk 1-3 blocks to my car, drive it in slow(and extremely variable based on time) traffic, circle the block a half dozen times to find a parking space, probably having to pay. Biking on the other hand means: I walk outside, bike where I'm going at the same speed every day, and lock up when I get there. I've frequently beaten my friends when going places in the city and I have my bike and don't wanna leave it behind so I bike and they cab/drive.
leoedin 9y ago
My commute in London is faster by bike than any other mode of transport. The distance I cover in 30 minutes of cycling would take 45 minutes to drive (most of that stuck in traffic) and around 50 minutes on public transport. During the day cycling is very frequently the fastest way to get somewhere. Driving is also incredibly variable - one broken down bus or accident and you're looking at a 30 minute delay. Cycling is incredibly consistent - you do get slowed down by more traffic, but only slightly.
aidos 9y ago
Definitely. I've cycled in London for a long time (though I'm slightly out of town now) and depending on the time of day, it can be the fastest way to get across the city. There are a few factors to consider. There are places you can go by bike that aren't always available to cars (cycle paths through parks, for example). You'll get from the exact starting point to exact finishing point. And general congestion will take care of the rest. In a slightly different way, where I am now, the fastest way to get to work is to cycle 20 minutes to a more convenient train station and take the train in. The alternative is a) much less reliable and b) takes an extra 45 minutes (minimum).

dr_ 9y ago

As a pedestrian crossing the straw in NYC, you will typically wait for cars to stop, then walk about 2/3 of the way into the street, then peer into the bike lane to make sure no bikes are coming, then complete your crossing. Most of the bikers, from my experience, do not follow rules such as stopping at a Stop sign or for pedestrians or at their own bike designated stop lights. It may be nice to bike in the cities parks or on its outskirts, but it's a dangerous proposition in the city itself. NYC is an urban jungle with a web of cars pedestrians, delivery trucks, garbage trucks and construction zones all over. As a biker, if you are not going to follow the rules, you are going to find yourself in trouble at some point.

nerdponx 9y ago
And if you do follow the rules on a bike you often end up sitting in traffic with the cars anyway.
- jablan 9y ago
  Exactly, because both the rules and, even worse, the infrastructure are made for cars, and only shoehorned for bikes afterwards.
- bpyne 9y ago
  Even following the rules you still save time because you're at the top of the queue with the lead car every time. When I bike into work I never have to wait 3-4 turns of the light to proceed. Yes, I do follow the rules: lights, stop signs, etc. Whether driving my car or riding my bike, I'm sharing a resource and we are all trying to get somewhere. It's only fair.
ChrisBland 9y ago
A million times this! I live in Chicago and am an avid biker (been doored by a cab, right of passage i guess?) I am one of the few who stops at stop signs and slows down or stops at cross walks to watch for pedestrians. I attend my local alderman's meetings to push for more protected bike lanes which we are now getting, but my fellow bikers are making us all look bad wrt following the rules of the road. I can't tell you how many times I've almost gotten hit crossing a cross walk by a biker flying down the street without looking or stopping for pedestrians. We are now at the point where bikes are truly getting to share the road, but we are forgetting that we don't just share with cars, but with pedestrians as well. That fact seems to elude most bikers and they are operating like they have total impunity when riding. I'd love to see cops out ticketing bikers for blowing through cross walks with pedestrians present, I'd love to see big fines for running red lights; lord knows our city needs the revenue.

L_Rahman 9y ago

In virtually every crosstown route during working hours in lower Manhattan. It's not even close, Citi Bikes are 1.5x - 2.5x faster than a cab.

ghaff 9y ago

Or... walk? For a lot of trips in central Manhattan, walking ten or twenty uptown blocks or cross-town for a few blocks is often the easiest way to get from point A to B. Personally, I don't really bike but I'm not sure the last time I felt I needed to take a cab in NYC.

JohnnyConatus 9y ago

When you're trying to get to the morgue? I'm sympathetic to cyclists - I am one myself - but the average CitiBike rider rides like an 8 year old who just got their first bike.

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xapata 9y ago
Many people predicted citibikes would be dangerous, but they were surprisingly accident-free for quite some time. You might have the impression that they're badly ridden, but the data suggests they're actually safe. There might be a bit of memory tricks going on -- you remember the things that stand out, but not the boring riders stopping at the light.

astannard 9y ago

I have been comparing biking and driving to work in Derby (UK) for my 7 mile commute. Biking can be quicker for me depending on traffic. I have just ordered an ebike that should shift the odds more in favour of this bike. I always feel better having commuted on bike though

verelo 9y ago
I wish you luck with the ebike, but personally i feel like they're problematic. It could just be our roads here though; the issue I find is that they're too fast for bike lanes [risk to cyclists], but too slow for the road [cars frequently pass them at higher speeds and very close-by]. It seems like everyone is frustrated and the ebikers are just being pushed around by everyone.
- detaro 9y ago
  What kind of e-bikes do people have in Canada? Electric-assist types, or ones with a throttle? In Europe the assist-type is way more common, limited to 25 km/h and at least in Germany the stereotypical user is an elder person that now suddenly can go a bit faster and go comfortably up hills.
  - verelo 9y ago
    I've seen both, the Electric-assist seem less common [or maybe just harder to identify?]. The ones that I see as not really fitting in are the larger ones that look kind of like an electric Vespa.
    - detaro 9y ago
      Ah, yes, those really don't mix well with neither bike lanes nor cars.
    - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
      They seem to be the worst of both worlds, I think there has been a lot of controversy about them using bike lanes in The Netherlands lately.

verelo 9y ago

Not much love for biking here; You'd almost think that most of the people on Hacker News are from Californian suburbs... Seriously though, biking in cities is great. It's one of those critical mass problems where the more people that do it the better the infrastructure gets, the more aware drivers become and there is a herd mentality where bikers tend to flow together making them more predictable and therefore safer to be around. I bike and drive in Toronto [i probably drive more than bike, depends on the weather and somewhat the mood i'm in], both have big up and downsides, just be considerate to everyone which ever you're taking part in! Edit: I forgot to say, those Citi bikes in NYC [Bikeshare in Toronto, Santander in London] have a special cohort of people riding them. The bikes are so slow [heavy!!!], and the riders are casual riders. I love that it gets people moving, and I use them from time to time, but damn the whole experience of riding next to one is scary even as another biker.

rockostrich 9y ago
Your edit is my one problem with the bike sharing programs in cities. As an everyday commuter if I see someone on their own bike it's usually a pretty safe assumption that they're aware of their surroundings. The casual riders make a lot of dangerous decisions because of their lack of awareness and I usually just end up waiting for some space to pass them as quickly as possible.
- jablan 9y ago
  You should ask your local government for dedicated biking infrastructure then.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    Dedicated bike lanes have actually been going out of style. Especially those using half of the sidewalk with only symbolic separation from pedestrians are plagued by the inattentiveness of pedestrians, and are usually too narrow to pass other bikes. The pavement is also at higher risk of damage, because these lanes are usually right next to any trees lining the roads, and their roots quickly create breaks, bumps and potholes. What's now preferred is a marked lane in the rightmost car lane, or to just dedicate a complete lane to bikes.

dokein 9y ago

I would love to bike, but the major issue is that every single person I know who's biked for more than 1 year has gotten into some type of accident (around 10 people), whether car, car door, or poorly maintained road. These are all 30s and work-at-the-office types so maybe they're not the most coordinated, but they are also not doing stupid shit.

thesmallestcat 9y ago
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- dokein 9y ago
  My concern is that everyone I know has had an accident, even if minor. It sounds like you have had accidents too. Although we can go slower, be more aware, etc., this suggests that the fundamental issue is structural -- if every single nurse in your hospital as accidentally administered the wrong medication, you should improve the identity verification process rather than just sending them for more training.
  - thesmallestcat 9y ago
    .
    - dokein 9y ago
      By nature of it being an accident, it seems hard to control whether it's a minor scrape or more serious injury. In any case, every person has their own risk tolerance -- hard to say what is objectively correct -- and subjectively it's too high for me.
      - deleted 9y ago
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      - bluntfang 9y ago
        Maybe the problem is with the word accident? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puK5CwThaq4

prohor 9y ago

Rally nice analysis. It is a pity that open access to data like this is still exception, not a rule. I wish to have such data for my city.

jdanp 9y ago

I live in the East Village and am convinced that cyclists in New York City have no regard for human life. The NYPD seems to be cracking down on their lawless behavior, but I think a push away from cycling and towards ride-sharing (a la Via) is the solution for our transit issue. With our broken subway system and high volume of cabs, ubers, etc; it is clear that New York is a driving city - but not a parking city.

ghaff 9y ago
The NYC subway system is far from the nicest in the world and it has a lot of infrastructure problems--in part because of its age. But a system that moves about 6 million people on the average weekday can't be all that broken.
- jdanp 9y ago
  You're right, my use of the term 'broken' was a bit harsh but this summer was particularly bad in terms of track fires, delays, station shutdowns, and persistent subway signal system problems, so much so that 'fixing the subway' has become a major talking point of the mayoral race.
  - deevolution 9y ago
    No reason to appologize for being "too harsh" at all. There is no reason to tollerate the state of this system. The nyc subway is hanging on by threads. By modern standards it deffinitely is broken and there are a whole lot of bugs to fix. The whole thing is running on ancient infrastructure. Saying otherwise will allow it to coninue as it is.
  - pcsanwald 9y ago
    I don't think you're being too harsh, but the point is that a lot of the worst problems are relatively recent: This past year has apparently been horrendous, but I lived in NYC from 2000-2016 and the subway was consistently way more reliable than cab for getting anyplace, especially during the workday in midtown. Every time I took a cab to an important meeting in manhattan, I regretted the decision. Whereas I've taken the subway to hundreds of meetings/appointments and really only gotten delayed impactfully a handful of times. No doubt that things have declined significantly in the past year, but I do think that saying NYC is a "driving city" is overstating.

mosselman 9y ago

Being from the Netherlands I am not at all surprised by this. It is very well known here that bikes get you places quicker than cars do. Especially within cities you can go to the city center without having to worry about finding a parking spot and paying a huge amount of money when you do. I have lived in New York and have driven a car there and based on that experience I wouldn't really find driving a bike there problematic. I have also lived in Brussels (Belgium) and used citi bikes there and was generally happy about the experience, even though the Belgian roads are a lot more dangerous due to the fact that Belgians don't have the slightest clue about anything that has to do with driving or traffic: they can't drive cars, they can't plan roads properly, they can't maintain them, etc. New York is grid based so traffic situations are easier to oversee.

xyzelement 9y ago

I am a zealous citibike convert here in NYC and I'll take one over a taxi any day but I think there's a systematic error in these numbers. I assume the taxi times are pickup to drop-off (ie encompasses the entire trip) while bike are station to station so there is walking time that's not accounted for on either end of the bike trip. There are times where the nearest station doesn't have bikes or free docks so the walk may be non trivia and add up to more than the 5 minutes median difference for cross town. On the other hand sometimes it takes a while to catch a cab and that's not included in the data either so perhaps it averages out. The author is right, bikes are great for reducing variability (on the bike you can get around most obstruction, even if it means walking the bike on a sidewalk for a quarter of a block while the taxi gets stuck) The one advice I disagree with is taking the bike when the President is in town. Trump was here last week for the UN and with all the street closures, detours and crazed drivers, biking was much more dangerous than usual.

francisofascii 9y ago

IMHO, for the most ideal city experience, transit options should be prioritized in this order: 1) pedestrians, 2) buses, 3) bikes, 4) cars. Biking being faster than motoring is excellent news towards this ideal.

TylerE 9y ago
The way it is being achieved is disgraceful. "'The oaks are just too greedy / We will make them give us light' / Now there's no more oak oppression / For they passed a noble law / And the trees are all kept equal / By hatchet, / Axe, / And saw"
revelation 9y ago
You got 2 and 3 switched up. It's very simple: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5j6rPlU4AEizP6.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5j6rPlU4AEizP6.jpg:large
- bluntfang 9y ago
  kneejerk, i tend to agree..but bussing is really necessary to for people with accessibility issues.
- francisofascii 9y ago
  My reasoning was a bus can transport many more people than one bike, but sure, I am agreeable to switching 2 and 3.
  - T-hawk 9y ago
    It's not just the quantity; it's the overall efficiency, of quantity compared to the cost of infrastructure and operations. Buses hold more but cost a lot more to build and drive, including stations and maintenance facilities, and externalities like emissions and gridlock. Bike infrastructure is cheap and operations are free to a city.

nashashmi 9y ago

I cannot help but witness the effects of traffic calming: > a taxi trip in 2017 took 17% longer than the same trip in 2009. > The same regression applied to Citi Bikes shows no such slowdown over time, in fact Citi Bikes got slightly faster. Obviously when you dedicate more street space from cars towards bikes, bikes get faster and cars get slower. The article goes to mention this, but also downplays it. What the article seems to ignore on a major scale is the effect of traffic calming, or traffic impeding. By civilizing traffic to the appropriate rules and procedures via hardscapes, you make vehicle travel more unbearable and a test of patience. If the intentions behind doing this weren't derived from anti-car sentiments, I could respect this move. But Janet Sadik-Khan is a bicycling enthusiast and after her appointment, car travel became really bad.

addicted 9y ago
Actually the article points to the fact that other studies have shown that bikes have either no effect, or improve traffic speeds, because one of the biggest misconceptions in traffic planning is the solution is to increase roadways, when in reality, the answer is usually to reduce. Actual relevant reasons may be the growth of Uber, the change of speed limits, and/or the increase in population.
macNchz 9y ago
As I understand it traffic has gotten demonstrably worse in NYC over the past few years at least in part because there are so many cars on the road driving for Uber et al: http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/02/27/its-settled-uber-is-making-nyc-gridlock-worse/ http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/02/27/its-settled-uber-is-ma... There have been some pedestrian safety changes made in Manhattan but traffic is really the biggest impediment. Most cars are moving less than the speed limit much of the day because of all the traffic.
dionidium 9y ago
If the intentions behind doing this weren't derived from anti-car sentiments New York City isn't nearly anti-car enough! It's the only place in the U.S. that has any chance of reclaiming its streets for pedestrians and it should absolutely do so. Those who like to drive can choose literally any other U.S. city and, without exception, it'll cater to that preference. But New York City should be implementing all kinds of car-hostile policies, including an all-out ban on private vehicles in some parts of Manhattan.

Tepix 9y ago

Are electric scooters and other small electric vehicles such as balancing boards or the Qingbu pocket scooter (a ripoff of the Walkcar?) legal in the US? They seem to be getting cheap now (saw the Xiaomi M365 for less than $330). Unfortunately in Germany you may not yet use them on public roads and sidewalks. I can see them having an advantage over bikes (and cars) because you can just fold them up and carry them with you into a cab, the subway, your office or your home.

cloudwizard 9y ago

If you are commuting on Caltrain in SF, it is way easier to take the citibikes. Only a relatively short distance in SOMA and way faster. When I went south to the tech campuses, I brought my own bike on the train. There are a few bikers that cause problems. I was driving in Palo Alto yesterday and a cyclist insisted on using the car lane instead of a perfectly good bike lane.

staticelf 9y ago

I'm from Sweden and have been biking in NYC as a tourist. I must say, it is one of the most scariest places I have biked in my life. Huge cars, almost no biking lanes, a lot of people and other traffic. I admit I was also a bit drunk but still, in Stockholm we have biking lanes almost everywhere and you feel a lot safer. Also there is a lot more people that use the bike when you give them a lane to bike on. Please, create more biking lanes. It's better for the cars, it is better for pedestrians, it's better for the environment and public health.

anthonybsd 9y ago
> Huge cars, almost no biking lanes, a lot of people and other traffic. When were you in NYC? We have more bike lanes than Stockholm these days. :) Proof: http://www.amny.com/transit/new-york-city-to-reach-1-000-miles-of-bike-lanes-on-tuesday-1.10873995 http://www.amny.com/transit/new-york-city-to-reach-1-000-mil... vs http://www.fourteenislands.com/bicycle-paths/ http://www.fourteenislands.com/bicycle-paths/
- arrmn 9y ago
  According to Google the Stockholm area is 188km^2 with 760km bike lanes and NY is 789km^2 with 1609km bike lanes.
- mikk14 9y ago
  Looking just at the installed capacity isn't a great way, if you do not control for overall area. Better to compare the relative space dedicated to cars, trains and bikes. Couldn't find data for Stockholm, but here is a NY-Copenhagen comparison: black lines are the relative NYC allocation spaces, orange bars is Copenhagen. Relatively speaking, Copenhagen has much more biking space: https://whatthestreet.moovellab.com/newyork/results?bike=0.16&rail=0.12&car=0.72 https://whatthestreet.moovellab.com/newyork/results?bike=0.1...
  - anthonybsd 9y ago
    Copenhagen is #1 on the list of bike-friendly cities. Of course it's going to outpace NYC.

hamburglar1 9y ago

As a NYer it's pretty clear that going cross town on a bike or skate board will be faster than a car, especially during rush hour. Moving through tight areas like Soho and Greenwich village, I would say that a skateboard is probably the fastest. I still can't tell if a skate board is safer than a bike. Absolutely more fun though

jonandersense 9y ago

Been biking in both Los Angeles & New York as my commute. In LA driving took 1-2h while biking took 1h. In my experience it's been faster for my commute, however there's still many days where there are no bikes where I live (UWS). I can highly recommend trying out the Citi bike if you live in New York, it's so cheap and many of the companies pays for it.

CodeSheikh 9y ago

NYC is not a bike friendly city at all (some parts of certain boroughs might be). Biking in NYC is also a quick ticket to ER room. I have already eye witnessed multiple altercations and accidents of bicyclists in this city. Scary.

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mrich 9y ago

I'm in Shanghai at the moment and it's definitely the same here, especially during peak hours. Lots of bikes for rent here too, you can see them on many sidewalks, not unusual to see a few hundred in a row. Students and office workers alike are using them. Ofo and Mobike are the big players here, they are also expanding to other continents now :)

bob_theslob646 9y ago

What is the life expectancy of getting in a taxi and getting to your destination vs getting on a bike? Probability of surviving if you get hit by a car: being in both? The other thing this article failed to mention is that NYC implemented slower speeds for cars. Overall this is true, but safety should be a factor and bikers nor drivers obey laws. Make the fines super expensive and use that money to educate people about the rules of the road. Drives me bonkers that they collect so much money in tickets from drivers but do not educate the people about it because they want the revenue haha. So stupid.

galkk 9y ago

It might work in NY, worked well for me in central London, but I'd like to see how the people will prefer that in cities that are built on the hills, like San Francisco or Seattle.

ccho 9y ago

As a daily commuter in NYC, often on Citibike, one of the most concerning discoveries has been the ability (if you are willing to pedal hard) to consistently beat out ambulances over stretches of 15 blocks -- specifically without running red lights on the bike whereas the ambulance is going through them -- due to the slow speed in which traffic clears a path for them. I really wish the streets were not so congested with vehicular traffic to prevent emergency vehicles from getting to their destinations.

skatestuff 9y ago

I ride a bike in NYC. If you accept being sweaty in the summer and risk getting hit in certain areas, then you'll have a blast riding. Otherwise it's a burden. In my opinion, biking is one of the fastest forms of transportation when traveling <40 blocks. Also, Citi Bikes are lunky. I hate riding them.

anonu 9y ago

From the article: > The same regression applied to Citi Bikes shows no such slowdown over time, in fact Citi Bikes got slightly faster. I suspect this is mainly due to better bikes. I've been a yearly subscriber to Citibike since the very beginning - and I can attest that the quality of the system and the bikes has improved tremendously since inception. Quality of the bikes is judged in part by their durability and sturdiness of individual items - but also the gearing. The newest bikes have the NuVinci continuous variable gear system - which is amazing to use but also allows you to get into a lot higher gear than the original bikes.

carlhjerpe 9y ago

What they didn't take into account is that riding a bike in a crowded city is a task for suicidal people only!