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Oh, it was a disaster both technically and economically and it turned out to be a humanitarian disaster in many rural areas. Made life hell and since it was not

Oh, it was a disaster both technically and economically and it turned out to be a humanitarian disaster in many rural areas. Made life hell and since it was not even half baked (it wasn't put in the oven at all) it affected people worse than anyone would have anticipated, if at all. It was a whimsical decision followed by distorted data floated around as facts, and then rumours, FUD being released, leaked and misrepresented from the Govt or related sources. I have not really done any elaboration here. I would just link you to https://www.google.com/search?q=how+india%27s+demonetization+was+a+disaster https://www.google.com/search?q=how+india%27s+demonetization.... I can answer follow up questions if any (or hopefully others might pitch in whether disagree or agree). I am assuming you are not from the place. I am not into finance and economics so I will try my best. I have one foot in an Indian metro and another in a village near a small town and I travel extensively during that time (in fact I happened to backpack across a fair portion of the country for 2 months during that period). And yeah, a lot of initial tech coverage just limited themselves to the failed online transactions (and similar issues in the cities) and completely ignored what was happening to the rural people and people in the small towns where most of India lives and does business. It was far far far worse.

horsecaptin 9y ago
Here's a more balanced search query: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Results+from+India%27s+demonetization&t=brave&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Results+from+India%27s+demonetizat...
sarang23592 9y ago
I am from a small town in India(Jammu). It was not as bad for the people you are making it out to be. And what you are googling is a confirmation bias. You can search how demonetization was actually impactful and you will see the corresponding results.
- vijaybritto 9y ago
  A small town in Jammu doesn't represent the entire country you know. The impact of demonetization is incredibly bad on the poor. The GDP has come down. The govt acknowledges it in indirect ways like increasing the fiscal spending by 500 Billion rupees. It's insane that even educated people don't accept the truth and get carried away by emotional rhetoric. What are you all expecting exactly as economic slowdown? This is it!
  - sarang23592 9y ago
    >A small town in Jammu doesn't represent the entire country you know I never said it does and I never said that demonetization was successful. I was just replying with first hand experience that impact of demonetization was not too bad for the people from what I saw and that the google will show what you want it to show. >It's insane that even educated people don't accept the truth and get carried away by emotional rhetoric What made you think that I got carried away by emotional rhetoric?
    - vijaybritto 9y ago
      > What made you think that I got carried away by emotional rhetoric? Refusing to accept or understand failure means that there is something else that makes you argue for it even when there are explicit results for everyone to see. Also it was not directed at you personally, rather at anyone who supports this decision still. Again, the amount of impact it has caused is there for everyone to see. The numbers are out. Arguing anymore about this is like arguing with flat earth society. Let's not downplay the Poor's suffering.
      - foo101 9y ago
        > Again, the amount of impact it has caused is there for everyone to see. That's your opinion. Two people have already mentioned that what they saw is inconsistent with what you claim everyone can see. Do you have a personal anecdote to share that describes your experience? If yes, do so. Do you have substantive evidence that your experience has been the experience of the majority? If yes, cite such statistics from trusted sources.
        vijaybritto 9y ago
        I think they can intentionally dismiss it. I'm not making up anything. So many verified sources have already published multiple articles. Just Google 'impact of demonetisation' which is obviously an unbiased query.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
- geraltofrivia 9y ago
  Okay, so, apart from the entire thing being dragged around by the international press, and Indian netizens, apart from countless stories of discomfort, there are afew things that stand out, which would paint the entire demonetization move in a bad light nonetheless. I'm no expert, and I'm recalling most of what I've read. Here goes: 1. Promises Promises: The PM unveiled the scheme abruptly (no woes here), promising people discomfort for a week... Then two weeks... Then a month... And then literally six months. You can see how things slipped out of controls as the initial "discomfort deadline" was a mere week. 2. Impeccable Planning: The new Rs 2000 note was not made to-size with the current ATM standards. As a result, the entire nation's ATM machines had to be modified. That is so big a blunder, it felt like I was reading The Onion when I read that one. 3. The Verdict: This one was the real eye opener. I was sympathetic to the entire humdrum, the months of inconvenience caused to everyone. (Full disclosure, I was not in India during the time. IMO, I can still have an opinion on the matter). But if it really did solve some parts of the black money problem, some good would have come out of it. In the annual RBI report, it was mentioned that ~99% of the currency flowing in the form of Rs 500, Rs 1000 notes was returned back to the banks. This implies that 99% of the currency is now legal, white money. That less than 1% of the currency was unaccounted for, and that's the money gained by the RBI since those notes are now rendered invalid. Source: http://www.thehindu.com/business/Economy/only-12-of-demonetised-1000-notes-did-not-return-rbi/article19590311.ece http://www.thehindu.com/business/Economy/only-12-of-demoneti... In this light then, I can't help but think of the entire process to be shaky. Edit: The link was an AMP link. Sorry about that.
  - sifar 9y ago
    I think the government/RBI were fully aware of the period of discomfort. Without incurring additional debt, the RBI could print only so much new currency as equal to the amount of old currency returned. This was the main reason for the crash crunch for the new currency, the ATMs being dry. Somehow nobody communicated this to the people. Now they may have underestimated the logistical issues to verify how much currency was returned.
- sifar 9y ago
  What you concluded by what you saw around you is a sort of confirmation bias too.It speaks about the wide socio-economic divide in India which to me is more acute than the US income inequality. People around you may not be affected because the grocer would provide them things on free credit or use digital payment means. Not so for the daily wage laborers, who would have to incur debt just to buy food. This was the biggest tragedy and irony of demonetization - the very people for whose sake this was done, suffered the most.It also provided the same people as armies via whom one can launder the cash hoardings. Communities/businesses who had good credit networks survived/weren't affected, those who didn't suffered.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sarang23592 9y ago
    > What you concluded by what you saw around you is a sort of confirmation bias too Fair Point.
  - thewhitetulip 9y ago
    >This was the biggest tragedy and irony of demonetization - the very people for whose sake this was done, suffered the most.It also provided the same people as armies via whom one can launder the cash hoardings it wasn't done to help poor people. it was a ploy to win elections in UP and a successful one at that.
- puranjay 9y ago
  You are delusional if you think Jammu is a small town. It has a population of half a million, nearly twice as much as Shimla. Small towns are towns like Barmer, Dausa, etc. Remember: nearly 70% of India lives in rural areas. Your "small town" of half a million doesn't reflect the reality of these 900M people at all.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sarang23592 9y ago
    I am from Barnara area near Mansar lake in Jamuu which ahs very low population. I didn't mention because I thought nobody would know it. Anyways my experience obviously differs from yours.
- balladeer 9y ago
  I am not googling it. I shared the search link for the commenter who asked about it. I am from a village in Bihar and family lives in nearby small towns. When the announcement for demonetisation was done I was asleep in a train to Hubli (from Bangalore) and I woke up to it with approx Rs 150 in my wallet (~3 dollars) and I backpacked across north and north east India for the next two months. I had left for the trip the previous day. I lived it as close as it could be in my capacity and mind it I was in a very privileged position. Really privileged and it was still very difficult. I could finally get some cash from a bank manager in Hubli who was a friend's relative and I went on. But I agree on the bias part I should have just suggested to search "India + demonetisation" and only suggested to play with the search terms as in adding words like "effects", advantages, disadvantages etc. > Jammu And the villages and towns I am talking about (esp. in the hinterland and the North East) are something entirely else if I consider Jammu a small town (I say this relatively)
- thewhitetulip 9y ago
  I am from Pune and I still face a cash crunch in the ATMs and I had to stand for 4hrs in a line on a saturday to get cash, which arrived one hour later from the RBI from Mumbai. You were lucky!
awongh 9y ago
I found this interesting article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/01/03/after-day-50-the-results-from-indias-demonetization-campaign-are-in/#6f3247eb50d1 https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/01/03/after-da... They mention a parable about a crocodile, where things will eventually re-adjust to favor the black market just as much as before, and these policies are just an inconvenience.... I'm not sure I understand how that would work, if transactions really do start to shift online. It seems to me that at the very least these policies will shift things in the right direction? Or is that an incorrect interpretation of the situation? Is it more a case of botched roll out of policies that are essentially positive for india, or is it just a political maneuver that won't change anything?

horsecaptin 9y ago

Here's a more balanced search query: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Results+from+India%27s+demonetization&t=brave&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Results+from+India%27s+demonetizat...

sarang23592 9y ago

I am from a small town in India(Jammu). It was not as bad for the people you are making it out to be. And what you are googling is a confirmation bias. You can search how demonetization was actually impactful and you will see the corresponding results.

vijaybritto 9y ago
A small town in Jammu doesn't represent the entire country you know. The impact of demonetization is incredibly bad on the poor. The GDP has come down. The govt acknowledges it in indirect ways like increasing the fiscal spending by 500 Billion rupees. It's insane that even educated people don't accept the truth and get carried away by emotional rhetoric. What are you all expecting exactly as economic slowdown? This is it!
- sarang23592 9y ago
  >A small town in Jammu doesn't represent the entire country you know I never said it does and I never said that demonetization was successful. I was just replying with first hand experience that impact of demonetization was not too bad for the people from what I saw and that the google will show what you want it to show. >It's insane that even educated people don't accept the truth and get carried away by emotional rhetoric What made you think that I got carried away by emotional rhetoric?
  - vijaybritto 9y ago
    > What made you think that I got carried away by emotional rhetoric? Refusing to accept or understand failure means that there is something else that makes you argue for it even when there are explicit results for everyone to see. Also it was not directed at you personally, rather at anyone who supports this decision still. Again, the amount of impact it has caused is there for everyone to see. The numbers are out. Arguing anymore about this is like arguing with flat earth society. Let's not downplay the Poor's suffering.
    - foo101 9y ago
      > Again, the amount of impact it has caused is there for everyone to see. That's your opinion. Two people have already mentioned that what they saw is inconsistent with what you claim everyone can see. Do you have a personal anecdote to share that describes your experience? If yes, do so. Do you have substantive evidence that your experience has been the experience of the majority? If yes, cite such statistics from trusted sources.
      - vijaybritto 9y ago
        I think they can intentionally dismiss it. I'm not making up anything. So many verified sources have already published multiple articles. Just Google 'impact of demonetisation' which is obviously an unbiased query.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
geraltofrivia 9y ago
Okay, so, apart from the entire thing being dragged around by the international press, and Indian netizens, apart from countless stories of discomfort, there are afew things that stand out, which would paint the entire demonetization move in a bad light nonetheless. I'm no expert, and I'm recalling most of what I've read. Here goes: 1. Promises Promises: The PM unveiled the scheme abruptly (no woes here), promising people discomfort for a week... Then two weeks... Then a month... And then literally six months. You can see how things slipped out of controls as the initial "discomfort deadline" was a mere week. 2. Impeccable Planning: The new Rs 2000 note was not made to-size with the current ATM standards. As a result, the entire nation's ATM machines had to be modified. That is so big a blunder, it felt like I was reading The Onion when I read that one. 3. The Verdict: This one was the real eye opener. I was sympathetic to the entire humdrum, the months of inconvenience caused to everyone. (Full disclosure, I was not in India during the time. IMO, I can still have an opinion on the matter). But if it really did solve some parts of the black money problem, some good would have come out of it. In the annual RBI report, it was mentioned that ~99% of the currency flowing in the form of Rs 500, Rs 1000 notes was returned back to the banks. This implies that 99% of the currency is now legal, white money. That less than 1% of the currency was unaccounted for, and that's the money gained by the RBI since those notes are now rendered invalid. Source: http://www.thehindu.com/business/Economy/only-12-of-demonetised-1000-notes-did-not-return-rbi/article19590311.ece http://www.thehindu.com/business/Economy/only-12-of-demoneti... In this light then, I can't help but think of the entire process to be shaky. Edit: The link was an AMP link. Sorry about that.
- sifar 9y ago
  I think the government/RBI were fully aware of the period of discomfort. Without incurring additional debt, the RBI could print only so much new currency as equal to the amount of old currency returned. This was the main reason for the crash crunch for the new currency, the ATMs being dry. Somehow nobody communicated this to the people. Now they may have underestimated the logistical issues to verify how much currency was returned.
sifar 9y ago
What you concluded by what you saw around you is a sort of confirmation bias too.It speaks about the wide socio-economic divide in India which to me is more acute than the US income inequality. People around you may not be affected because the grocer would provide them things on free credit or use digital payment means. Not so for the daily wage laborers, who would have to incur debt just to buy food. This was the biggest tragedy and irony of demonetization - the very people for whose sake this was done, suffered the most.It also provided the same people as armies via whom one can launder the cash hoardings. Communities/businesses who had good credit networks survived/weren't affected, those who didn't suffered.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sarang23592 9y ago
  > What you concluded by what you saw around you is a sort of confirmation bias too Fair Point.
- thewhitetulip 9y ago
  >This was the biggest tragedy and irony of demonetization - the very people for whose sake this was done, suffered the most.It also provided the same people as armies via whom one can launder the cash hoardings it wasn't done to help poor people. it was a ploy to win elections in UP and a successful one at that.
puranjay 9y ago
You are delusional if you think Jammu is a small town. It has a population of half a million, nearly twice as much as Shimla. Small towns are towns like Barmer, Dausa, etc. Remember: nearly 70% of India lives in rural areas. Your "small town" of half a million doesn't reflect the reality of these 900M people at all.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sarang23592 9y ago
  I am from Barnara area near Mansar lake in Jamuu which ahs very low population. I didn't mention because I thought nobody would know it. Anyways my experience obviously differs from yours.
balladeer 9y ago
I am not googling it. I shared the search link for the commenter who asked about it. I am from a village in Bihar and family lives in nearby small towns. When the announcement for demonetisation was done I was asleep in a train to Hubli (from Bangalore) and I woke up to it with approx Rs 150 in my wallet (~3 dollars) and I backpacked across north and north east India for the next two months. I had left for the trip the previous day. I lived it as close as it could be in my capacity and mind it I was in a very privileged position. Really privileged and it was still very difficult. I could finally get some cash from a bank manager in Hubli who was a friend's relative and I went on. But I agree on the bias part I should have just suggested to search "India + demonetisation" and only suggested to play with the search terms as in adding words like "effects", advantages, disadvantages etc. > Jammu And the villages and towns I am talking about (esp. in the hinterland and the North East) are something entirely else if I consider Jammu a small town (I say this relatively)
thewhitetulip 9y ago
I am from Pune and I still face a cash crunch in the ATMs and I had to stand for 4hrs in a line on a saturday to get cash, which arrived one hour later from the RBI from Mumbai. You were lucky!

awongh 9y ago

I found this interesting article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/01/03/after-day-50-the-results-from-indias-demonetization-campaign-are-in/#6f3247eb50d1 https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/01/03/after-da... They mention a parable about a crocodile, where things will eventually re-adjust to favor the black market just as much as before, and these policies are just an inconvenience.... I'm not sure I understand how that would work, if transactions really do start to shift online. It seems to me that at the very least these policies will shift things in the right direction? Or is that an incorrect interpretation of the situation? Is it more a case of botched roll out of policies that are essentially positive for india, or is it just a political maneuver that won't change anything?