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I think the upvote system is flawed and needs to be evolved into a better system that rewards content based on different metrics. Maybe things like time spent

I think the upvote system is flawed and needs to be evolved into a better system that rewards content based on different metrics. Maybe things like time spent on the page linked, or time spent writing content, or even word count should add subtle multipliers to comments that help promote their visibility. Low effort content that incites a reaction is a hallmark of the upvote system and currently the only thing that I've seen curtail it is human moderation.

gizmo686 9y ago
This thread would seem to be a counter-example. The top of the thread looks much better than the bottom. As far as I can tell, this was done entirely without moderator intervention [0] [0] Dang does have a comment but, if I understand the meaning of [flagged] correctly, it was user downvotes that triggered the killing, and Dang just provided commentary. There is also a perfectly comment marked as [dead], which I assume is a shadow-ban for an unrelated matter.
- guildwriter 9y ago
  Not exactly. HN is a community that is relatively small and has a strong culture. This is one of HN's greatest strengths in preventing the same sort of issues that occur in reddit. Larger subreddits show the breakdown of the upvoting system quite dramatically. Subreddits that become heavily polarized also suffer from this. You can see HN having the same problem in heavily contentious topics or flagged posts. This is where the left leaning majority demonstrates it's influence the most. Comment quality hits the skids right off the bat and never really recovers. Inevitably it is the culture of the posting community and the adherence to that culture that allows for this kind of thoughtful posting to occur. Moderation is a fundamental requirement as well. I've seen many instances in large subreddits that experiment with relying on the upvote system that end in total failure. For a time the community policing works, and then the front page is dominated by low effort content and shit posting.
indubitable 9y ago
In my opinion the upvote system gained popularity not as anything like an effective means of content ordering (even if that was its original intent) but because it's an effective means of site growth. It turns discussion into a game where you can get, or lose, points and creates an emotional response system not all that dissimilar to the blinking lights of a slot machine. An interesting thought experiment. Imagine a site like Reddit disabled all external numeric displays of score for a year. You'd only have indirect indicators like order prioritization and apparent visibility based on the number of comments responding to a post. Would usage increase or decrease relative to what it would have otherwise? In my opinion it would not only decrease, but somewhat precipitously. There are a vast number of people that seem to participate almost solely as a means of increasing their score. And even for those not fully addicted to the system, it certainly provides an emotional feedback mechanism. Without this, I do not see these users participating as much - nor do I see a sudden influx of others to replace them. On the other hand, I also imagine this would likely substantially increase overall quality. Like you mention low effort content that incites a reaction is a hallmark of gaming these score systems.

gizmo686 9y ago

This thread would seem to be a counter-example. The top of the thread looks much better than the bottom. As far as I can tell, this was done entirely without moderator intervention [0] [0] Dang does have a comment but, if I understand the meaning of [flagged] correctly, it was user downvotes that triggered the killing, and Dang just provided commentary. There is also a perfectly comment marked as [dead], which I assume is a shadow-ban for an unrelated matter.

guildwriter 9y ago
Not exactly. HN is a community that is relatively small and has a strong culture. This is one of HN's greatest strengths in preventing the same sort of issues that occur in reddit. Larger subreddits show the breakdown of the upvoting system quite dramatically. Subreddits that become heavily polarized also suffer from this. You can see HN having the same problem in heavily contentious topics or flagged posts. This is where the left leaning majority demonstrates it's influence the most. Comment quality hits the skids right off the bat and never really recovers. Inevitably it is the culture of the posting community and the adherence to that culture that allows for this kind of thoughtful posting to occur. Moderation is a fundamental requirement as well. I've seen many instances in large subreddits that experiment with relying on the upvote system that end in total failure. For a time the community policing works, and then the front page is dominated by low effort content and shit posting.

indubitable 9y ago

In my opinion the upvote system gained popularity not as anything like an effective means of content ordering (even if that was its original intent) but because it's an effective means of site growth. It turns discussion into a game where you can get, or lose, points and creates an emotional response system not all that dissimilar to the blinking lights of a slot machine. An interesting thought experiment. Imagine a site like Reddit disabled all external numeric displays of score for a year. You'd only have indirect indicators like order prioritization and apparent visibility based on the number of comments responding to a post. Would usage increase or decrease relative to what it would have otherwise? In my opinion it would not only decrease, but somewhat precipitously. There are a vast number of people that seem to participate almost solely as a means of increasing their score. And even for those not fully addicted to the system, it certainly provides an emotional feedback mechanism. Without this, I do not see these users participating as much - nor do I see a sudden influx of others to replace them. On the other hand, I also imagine this would likely substantially increase overall quality. Like you mention low effort content that incites a reaction is a hallmark of gaming these score systems.