5 ms·

If Chinese start an economic and cultural expansion which includes PRing their culture, movies, tech, products and building special relationships with developin

If Chinese start an economic and cultural expansion which includes PRing their culture, movies, tech, products and building special relationships with developing world in Asia, Africa, south American and Europe they may end up being the globalization leader.

jacquesm 9y ago
That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.
- AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
  And that's supposed to offend them? how? What makes you think Chinese are after making others follow them? I think they are pretty happy with the way things are now. Do you think that's what we are after? Making others emulate us? That sounds racist to me.
  - s4vi0r 9y ago
    Nobody is ever "pretty happy with the way things are" in the context of a country or company. It is absolutely in China's best interest to promote their culture abroad, and they absolutely do spend tons of money doing it. Also, I'm not sure you know what racism is.
  - nikdaheratik 9y ago
    The choice for China is to either be an insulated and isolated country with little exposure to the rest of the world, or to reach out and contribute in the conversation. I think we're already decades past the point where they can close themselves off, but if they want their own people to appreciate their culture, they have to be just as innovative as the rest of the world. Otherwise, people will stop listening and believing in what the party has to say.
  - JamesBarney 9y ago
    The poster he's responding to says that China can become a or the global cultural leader of the world. And to achieve this specific status they do need others to follow them culturally. If no one outside of China is wearing Chinese clothes, watching Chinese movies, or listening to Chinese music, then they can't be considered a cultural globalization leader.
    - seppin 9y ago
      or, given the network effort of English as the global language of tourism, science, etc. the would need to create billions of new Chinese speakers. Give how different and difficult it is, I really don't see that happening.
- natural219 9y ago
  Speaking as a young Western person, you are severely out of touch on this point.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Name 5 present day Chinese writers, pop stars and movie icons without referring to the web or using google. Then name 5 present day American writers, pop stars and movie icons.
- arethuza 9y ago
  My 18 year old son has been looking at studying for a year abroad during his UK university course - the countries he is most interested in: Korea and Japan, he's least interested in the US.
- vetinari 9y ago
  > I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much. That's more position of ignorance, and thankfully it is changing. Even Eastern Europe had a problem with such an attitude. There used to be a saying: "Americans are not going to buy Skoda, Chinese will". And indeed, Chinese do.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  As an European of almost 30, I used to feel America is cool, but I got pretty disillusioned over the last 10-15 years. I can tell the same about many people I know too. US is no longer a country to be emulated. It's a country to fear (for what they can, and do, to other countries) and a country to pity (for what it does to its own citizens). China, OTOH, looks more and more cool now. A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda, and while their politics still wouldn't make me feel safe starting a business there, they seem to be the only country on the planet that seems to think and execute long-term. It's something the West is no longer able to do. Hell, the Chinese currently seem to be the only nation on the planet who seriously care about fixing the climate issues. China has a great opportunity now to win plenty of foreign mind share. I wonder if they'll go for it, and if we start seeing more pro-Chinese propaganda.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    > A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda Such as?
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      People living in fear. Strong and full censorship for political reasons (it turned out neither strong not being done for political reasons, but rather economical ones). Population control through forced abortions and murders everywhere (it turned out to be not true). Evil communist leaders. Shit-quality manufacturing (that's the fault of western companies; China manufactures to the specs you give and pay for, it's western companies that decide to cheap out on products). Those are all things I've been led to believe through media reports. The point being, whatever happened there 40 or 60 years ago, currently China is not that much different from the US, and unlike the latter, it's only getting better.
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        > People living in fear. In the former Eastblock people weren't living in fear either, as long as they did not think of sticking their heads up too far above the field in terms of political activism and such. If you did then you were pretty sure to be targeted. China today is still very repressive when it comes to political freedom. https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/china https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/china And as long as they are 'one party rule' I think that it is both strong and for political reasons. Keep in mind that all of politics is ultimately rooted in economy so it is pretty easy to get lost in the mix. > Population control through forced abortions and murders everywhere (it turned out to be not true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy It very much turned out to be true, and you can add a very large number of forced sterilizations to that list. > Evil communist leaders. That's an opinion, I'm not going to argue with opinions. > Shit-quality manufacturing (that's the fault of western companies; China manufactures to the specs you give and pay for, it's western companies that decide to cheap out on products). This is false. China can make quality products but there is also a culture of substitution where quality samples are replaced with lower grade manufacture at later points in a contract to deliver. This has bitten many Western companies that turned to China for their manufacturing and which has caused a lot of companies to bring their quality control to China, just before shipping to save on the amount of stuff shipped that simply did not work or did not work as advertised. This QA issue has been very well documented and can definitely not be laid at the door of the Western companies placing their orders in good faith. > Those are all things I've been led to believe through media reports. Media mostly reports, it mostly does not make stuff up. And most of those media reports are backed by at least my personal experience over the years where I will be more than happy to note that this stuff isn't a constant but that there are trends with some stuff improving and other things worsening. If you know your stuff it is very well possible to manufacture quality goods in China. > The point being, whatever happened there 40 or 60 years ago, currently China is not that much different from the US That is hilarious in so many ways. China is extremely different from the US along almost any axis that you care to name. Other than that of course the Chinese are people, just like Americans and Europeans but that's about it. > and unlike the latter, it's only getting better. This may very well be true, but then again, that's a function of where they were only a few decades ago. It's hard to remain at the top of something if there are other parties that wish to ascend, in dutch we have a proverb that reads 'standing still is going backwards' (I'm not sure how well that translates), but it fairly accurately sums up the sentiment.
chaostheory 9y ago
As someone who is sometimes forced to watch media from the mainland due to family, unless censorship is relaxed - this isn't going to happen. Creativity is inhibited when you have the cost of wondering whether what you've written or what you'll say will land you in jail. This problem is multiplied 1000x if you work in anything related to media or art. Consequently mainland entertainment will always be safe and boring. It's not going to see success like say South Korean or Japanese media industries It's super obvious that the state of the mainland China entertainment industry is so terrible when you have most Chinese pirating foreign media
- AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
  No innovation in entertainment means culture safety means prolonged rule of the party. You are just confirming their logic.
  - nikdaheratik 9y ago
    This is just silly. If the local entertainment isn't very good, then people will find something better that isn't controlled by the Chinese government or shaped the rest of the Chinese culture, which is how you get Western values along with Hollywood movies. And you also get a culture that ignores censorship laws, because they are stupid, which can lead to ignoring other laws that are stupid. I'm not saying pirated Marvel movies are going to bring down the PRC, but there's no reason to think that bad Chinese movies that no one wants to watch will help the party, either.
eksemplar 9y ago
Especially if America keeps electing republicans. As an European America is shitting on me a lot more than China is.
- StreamBright 9y ago
  This is so simple. I did not know.
- chriscappuccio 9y ago
  I believe the problem is actually that you keep soiling yourself.

jacquesm 9y ago

That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.

AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
And that's supposed to offend them? how? What makes you think Chinese are after making others follow them? I think they are pretty happy with the way things are now. Do you think that's what we are after? Making others emulate us? That sounds racist to me.
- s4vi0r 9y ago
  Nobody is ever "pretty happy with the way things are" in the context of a country or company. It is absolutely in China's best interest to promote their culture abroad, and they absolutely do spend tons of money doing it. Also, I'm not sure you know what racism is.
- nikdaheratik 9y ago
  The choice for China is to either be an insulated and isolated country with little exposure to the rest of the world, or to reach out and contribute in the conversation. I think we're already decades past the point where they can close themselves off, but if they want their own people to appreciate their culture, they have to be just as innovative as the rest of the world. Otherwise, people will stop listening and believing in what the party has to say.
- JamesBarney 9y ago
  The poster he's responding to says that China can become a or the global cultural leader of the world. And to achieve this specific status they do need others to follow them culturally. If no one outside of China is wearing Chinese clothes, watching Chinese movies, or listening to Chinese music, then they can't be considered a cultural globalization leader.
  - seppin 9y ago
    or, given the network effort of English as the global language of tourism, science, etc. the would need to create billions of new Chinese speakers. Give how different and difficult it is, I really don't see that happening.
natural219 9y ago
Speaking as a young Western person, you are severely out of touch on this point.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Name 5 present day Chinese writers, pop stars and movie icons without referring to the web or using google. Then name 5 present day American writers, pop stars and movie icons.
arethuza 9y ago
My 18 year old son has been looking at studying for a year abroad during his UK university course - the countries he is most interested in: Korea and Japan, he's least interested in the US.
vetinari 9y ago
> I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much. That's more position of ignorance, and thankfully it is changing. Even Eastern Europe had a problem with such an attitude. There used to be a saying: "Americans are not going to buy Skoda, Chinese will". And indeed, Chinese do.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
As an European of almost 30, I used to feel America is cool, but I got pretty disillusioned over the last 10-15 years. I can tell the same about many people I know too. US is no longer a country to be emulated. It's a country to fear (for what they can, and do, to other countries) and a country to pity (for what it does to its own citizens). China, OTOH, looks more and more cool now. A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda, and while their politics still wouldn't make me feel safe starting a business there, they seem to be the only country on the planet that seems to think and execute long-term. It's something the West is no longer able to do. Hell, the Chinese currently seem to be the only nation on the planet who seriously care about fixing the climate issues. China has a great opportunity now to win plenty of foreign mind share. I wonder if they'll go for it, and if we start seeing more pro-Chinese propaganda.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  > A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda Such as?
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    People living in fear. Strong and full censorship for political reasons (it turned out neither strong not being done for political reasons, but rather economical ones). Population control through forced abortions and murders everywhere (it turned out to be not true). Evil communist leaders. Shit-quality manufacturing (that's the fault of western companies; China manufactures to the specs you give and pay for, it's western companies that decide to cheap out on products). Those are all things I've been led to believe through media reports. The point being, whatever happened there 40 or 60 years ago, currently China is not that much different from the US, and unlike the latter, it's only getting better.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      > People living in fear. In the former Eastblock people weren't living in fear either, as long as they did not think of sticking their heads up too far above the field in terms of political activism and such. If you did then you were pretty sure to be targeted. China today is still very repressive when it comes to political freedom. https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/china https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/china And as long as they are 'one party rule' I think that it is both strong and for political reasons. Keep in mind that all of politics is ultimately rooted in economy so it is pretty easy to get lost in the mix. > Population control through forced abortions and murders everywhere (it turned out to be not true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy It very much turned out to be true, and you can add a very large number of forced sterilizations to that list. > Evil communist leaders. That's an opinion, I'm not going to argue with opinions. > Shit-quality manufacturing (that's the fault of western companies; China manufactures to the specs you give and pay for, it's western companies that decide to cheap out on products). This is false. China can make quality products but there is also a culture of substitution where quality samples are replaced with lower grade manufacture at later points in a contract to deliver. This has bitten many Western companies that turned to China for their manufacturing and which has caused a lot of companies to bring their quality control to China, just before shipping to save on the amount of stuff shipped that simply did not work or did not work as advertised. This QA issue has been very well documented and can definitely not be laid at the door of the Western companies placing their orders in good faith. > Those are all things I've been led to believe through media reports. Media mostly reports, it mostly does not make stuff up. And most of those media reports are backed by at least my personal experience over the years where I will be more than happy to note that this stuff isn't a constant but that there are trends with some stuff improving and other things worsening. If you know your stuff it is very well possible to manufacture quality goods in China. > The point being, whatever happened there 40 or 60 years ago, currently China is not that much different from the US That is hilarious in so many ways. China is extremely different from the US along almost any axis that you care to name. Other than that of course the Chinese are people, just like Americans and Europeans but that's about it. > and unlike the latter, it's only getting better. This may very well be true, but then again, that's a function of where they were only a few decades ago. It's hard to remain at the top of something if there are other parties that wish to ascend, in dutch we have a proverb that reads 'standing still is going backwards' (I'm not sure how well that translates), but it fairly accurately sums up the sentiment.

chaostheory 9y ago

As someone who is sometimes forced to watch media from the mainland due to family, unless censorship is relaxed - this isn't going to happen. Creativity is inhibited when you have the cost of wondering whether what you've written or what you'll say will land you in jail. This problem is multiplied 1000x if you work in anything related to media or art. Consequently mainland entertainment will always be safe and boring. It's not going to see success like say South Korean or Japanese media industries It's super obvious that the state of the mainland China entertainment industry is so terrible when you have most Chinese pirating foreign media

AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
No innovation in entertainment means culture safety means prolonged rule of the party. You are just confirming their logic.
- nikdaheratik 9y ago
  This is just silly. If the local entertainment isn't very good, then people will find something better that isn't controlled by the Chinese government or shaped the rest of the Chinese culture, which is how you get Western values along with Hollywood movies. And you also get a culture that ignores censorship laws, because they are stupid, which can lead to ignoring other laws that are stupid. I'm not saying pirated Marvel movies are going to bring down the PRC, but there's no reason to think that bad Chinese movies that no one wants to watch will help the party, either.

eksemplar 9y ago

Especially if America keeps electing republicans. As an European America is shitting on me a lot more than China is.

StreamBright 9y ago
This is so simple. I did not know.
chriscappuccio 9y ago
I believe the problem is actually that you keep soiling yourself.