5 ms·

>This isn't a Republican or Democratic problem. At every level of government, both parties represent distressed areas. But the economic fortunes of the haves an

by jbob2000 9y ago

>This isn't a Republican or Democratic problem. At every level of government, both parties represent distressed areas. But the economic fortunes of the haves and have-nots have only helped to widen the political chasm between them, and it has yet to be addressed by substantial policy proposals on either side of the aisle. I don't understand how the article can claim this when their own graphic at the top of the page shows that the majority of distressed communities are in Republican-dominant areas.

snarfy 9y ago
For comparison, here is a 2016 election map by county: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2016_Nationwide_US_presidential_county_map_shaded_by_vote_share.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2016_Nationwide_US_presid...
Terr_ 9y ago
> their own graphic at the top of the page shows that the majority of distressed communities That kind of map conveys acres of unfeeling land, rather than a quantity of distressed humans. So that particular graphic is simply not very useful -- whichever way folks want to argue things.
Clubber 9y ago
This is an honest question and not intended to be snarky, but what have Democrats done to improve job scarcity in middle America? I'm not insinuating that the GOP has done anything either.
- jbob2000 9y ago
  You don't do one thing to fix something like job scarcity, you need a roundup of changes over decades to fix it. You need programs that push people into higher education so the communities have something to offer. And people can't study at college or university if they have children from unintended pregnancies, so you need to have good social programs to help people from when they enter high school to when they leave grad school. You need healthcare to prevent health issues before they happen and to get people back to work as soon as possible when they do fall ill. You need welfare programs so if shit happens (And it does) you don't have your life completely destroyed and you and your family put on the street. Are any of those policies ones that the Republican party stands for? Sex education, socialized healthcare and education, and welfare are on the GOP hit-list. Democrat states have had these things for decades now, which is why they are the prosperous ones.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    So all those things are great, I don't see how any of them will solve the employment problem plaguing most of the country, either directly or indirectly. The closest thing you listed is pushing people to college degrees. Once they get their degree, they'd have to move to a prosperous city to get employment. The non-prosperous city hasn't improved at all. So I think what you aren't understanding about the problem, is that in all these non-prosperous towns, there are few jobs and most of them pay shit. They had jobs, but they all left. The problem is to get the jobs back. What have the Dems done to get the jobs back? Again, I'm not saying the GOP has done anything either, but see my issue? Nothing is being done by either party, and that's a huge issue affecting millions of families. I mean it's not even really discussed. Warren is the only one even on the trail of some solutions, but she is an outsider (by her own admission). I mean if you go to these areas, it's the Great Depression. The towns are all boarded up and the people are hurting and have been for 4 decades. It's a huge failure of government that this is happening, and has been happening for so long.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      "What have the Dems done to get the jobs back?" They're not coming back. And if you look, you'll see that Democrats did propose plans in the last election. But without the approval of Congress, there's not much that can be done.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        >They're not coming back. So should we continue to just tell a good chunk of the country to go to hell? What plans would the Dems enact if they sweep the 2020 election? I mean this is the most pressing issue for a huge voting block. Without a good plan, I don't think the Dems can take back the house or senate, much less the presidency. It's long over due, and the GOP don't have any good ideas either. >And if you look, you'll see that Democrats did propose plans in the last election. Like what?
        s73ver_ 9y ago
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago
  You can't force change on people who distrust you and all your ideas.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Agree, but what are the Dem's ideas?
  - krapp 9y ago
    Arguably, that is exactly what governments are for.
- r00fus 9y ago
  The problem is that GOP get elected by saying Government is broken then proceed to fulfill the prediction by breaking it further (look at Kansas). The Dems need to go back to the 50 state strategy and just "show up" at a number of uncontested races preparing to lose but win the 2nd or 3rd time - the problem is that the establishment wing of the Democratic party cock-blocks that and actively advances "their person" into such races and proceeds to lose them (blaming the grassroots candidate in the process), while ignoring large swathes of winnable races.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    >GGOP get elected by saying Government is broken Honestly, with this issue, and it's a huge issue, it seems the government is broken. I don't know how the Dems plan on solving this either, so I'm not sure replacing every GOP politician with a Dem politician will solve anything.
    - r00fus 9y ago
      You haven't been listening to platforms. There are solutions that the traditional media ignore because their funders/advertisers don't like them. Example: medicare for all, financial transaction tax, Gore's lockbox for SS funds, repealing parts of patriot act, etc.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        I like all of those ideas, especially medicare for all. I think that is one that will help middle America. One of the main reasons people don't just quit and start their own businesses is because they can't afford to lose health insurance. I think blocking all these M&A would go a long way too. No one can compete in an industry with just one or two giants who enact huge barriers to entry, etc. Who proposed that? Bernie?
        r00fus 9y ago
        Bernie proposed Medicare for All, but I haven't really heard anything about blocking mergers. Sounds more like effective DOJ/antitrust, though. Keep in mind that Obama (widely seen as a sellout from Dems and the antichrist on the GOP side) was effective in reducing mobile subscription costs by blocking the AT&T / TMobile merger in 2014 - that was the FCC.
- damnstraight 9y ago
  Arguably Obamacare has been great for adding jobs to the healthcare industry. That said, I'm not entirely sure what the executive branch can be expected to do here aside from tweaking interest rates and actively hiring people directly.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Democrats have long had plans for retraining programs for those affected by economic change. On most trade agreements, Democrats are the ones pushing for retraining programs for those who's jobs would be displaced by the agreement. Hell, Secretary Clinton had a whole plan written up on retraining programs for those in economically distressed areas. They actually had ideas and plans beyond "Let's bring back coal."
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Yes, I remember Bill gave a good speech about retraining workers, but without businesses in these towns to hire people, I don't see how it would do much for actual employment. It's not only manufacturing that left, agriculture scaled so high that you need 1000+ acres to make it in most crops. 1000 acres costs millions of dollars, leaving even more people behind. I don't know your age, but there were a bunch of Farm Aid concerts in the 80s. Didn't seem to do much though.
busterarm 9y ago
A majority of areas are Republican-dominant areas. If your metric is land mass, dividing on party lines is only going to get you one result.
zebrafish 9y ago
If you actually zoom in to the map, you'll see that yes, a lot of these are republican territories, but there are also a lot of democratic territories with a majority of black and latino voters. It cuts both ways.

snarfy 9y ago

For comparison, here is a 2016 election map by county: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2016_Nationwide_US_presidential_county_map_shaded_by_vote_share.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2016_Nationwide_US_presid...

Terr_ 9y ago

> their own graphic at the top of the page shows that the majority of distressed communities That kind of map conveys acres of unfeeling land, rather than a quantity of distressed humans. So that particular graphic is simply not very useful -- whichever way folks want to argue things.

Clubber 9y ago

This is an honest question and not intended to be snarky, but what have Democrats done to improve job scarcity in middle America? I'm not insinuating that the GOP has done anything either.

jbob2000 9y ago
You don't do one thing to fix something like job scarcity, you need a roundup of changes over decades to fix it. You need programs that push people into higher education so the communities have something to offer. And people can't study at college or university if they have children from unintended pregnancies, so you need to have good social programs to help people from when they enter high school to when they leave grad school. You need healthcare to prevent health issues before they happen and to get people back to work as soon as possible when they do fall ill. You need welfare programs so if shit happens (And it does) you don't have your life completely destroyed and you and your family put on the street. Are any of those policies ones that the Republican party stands for? Sex education, socialized healthcare and education, and welfare are on the GOP hit-list. Democrat states have had these things for decades now, which is why they are the prosperous ones.
- Clubber 9y ago
  So all those things are great, I don't see how any of them will solve the employment problem plaguing most of the country, either directly or indirectly. The closest thing you listed is pushing people to college degrees. Once they get their degree, they'd have to move to a prosperous city to get employment. The non-prosperous city hasn't improved at all. So I think what you aren't understanding about the problem, is that in all these non-prosperous towns, there are few jobs and most of them pay shit. They had jobs, but they all left. The problem is to get the jobs back. What have the Dems done to get the jobs back? Again, I'm not saying the GOP has done anything either, but see my issue? Nothing is being done by either party, and that's a huge issue affecting millions of families. I mean it's not even really discussed. Warren is the only one even on the trail of some solutions, but she is an outsider (by her own admission). I mean if you go to these areas, it's the Great Depression. The towns are all boarded up and the people are hurting and have been for 4 decades. It's a huge failure of government that this is happening, and has been happening for so long.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    "What have the Dems done to get the jobs back?" They're not coming back. And if you look, you'll see that Democrats did propose plans in the last election. But without the approval of Congress, there's not much that can be done.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      >They're not coming back. So should we continue to just tell a good chunk of the country to go to hell? What plans would the Dems enact if they sweep the 2020 election? I mean this is the most pressing issue for a huge voting block. Without a good plan, I don't think the Dems can take back the house or senate, much less the presidency. It's long over due, and the GOP don't have any good ideas either. >And if you look, you'll see that Democrats did propose plans in the last election. Like what?
      - s73ver_ 9y ago
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
You can't force change on people who distrust you and all your ideas.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Agree, but what are the Dem's ideas?
- krapp 9y ago
  Arguably, that is exactly what governments are for.
r00fus 9y ago
The problem is that GOP get elected by saying Government is broken then proceed to fulfill the prediction by breaking it further (look at Kansas). The Dems need to go back to the 50 state strategy and just "show up" at a number of uncontested races preparing to lose but win the 2nd or 3rd time - the problem is that the establishment wing of the Democratic party cock-blocks that and actively advances "their person" into such races and proceeds to lose them (blaming the grassroots candidate in the process), while ignoring large swathes of winnable races.
- Clubber 9y ago
  >GGOP get elected by saying Government is broken Honestly, with this issue, and it's a huge issue, it seems the government is broken. I don't know how the Dems plan on solving this either, so I'm not sure replacing every GOP politician with a Dem politician will solve anything.
  - r00fus 9y ago
    You haven't been listening to platforms. There are solutions that the traditional media ignore because their funders/advertisers don't like them. Example: medicare for all, financial transaction tax, Gore's lockbox for SS funds, repealing parts of patriot act, etc.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      I like all of those ideas, especially medicare for all. I think that is one that will help middle America. One of the main reasons people don't just quit and start their own businesses is because they can't afford to lose health insurance. I think blocking all these M&A would go a long way too. No one can compete in an industry with just one or two giants who enact huge barriers to entry, etc. Who proposed that? Bernie?
      - r00fus 9y ago
        Bernie proposed Medicare for All, but I haven't really heard anything about blocking mergers. Sounds more like effective DOJ/antitrust, though. Keep in mind that Obama (widely seen as a sellout from Dems and the antichrist on the GOP side) was effective in reducing mobile subscription costs by blocking the AT&T / TMobile merger in 2014 - that was the FCC.
damnstraight 9y ago
Arguably Obamacare has been great for adding jobs to the healthcare industry. That said, I'm not entirely sure what the executive branch can be expected to do here aside from tweaking interest rates and actively hiring people directly.
s73ver_ 9y ago
Democrats have long had plans for retraining programs for those affected by economic change. On most trade agreements, Democrats are the ones pushing for retraining programs for those who's jobs would be displaced by the agreement. Hell, Secretary Clinton had a whole plan written up on retraining programs for those in economically distressed areas. They actually had ideas and plans beyond "Let's bring back coal."
- Clubber 9y ago
  Yes, I remember Bill gave a good speech about retraining workers, but without businesses in these towns to hire people, I don't see how it would do much for actual employment. It's not only manufacturing that left, agriculture scaled so high that you need 1000+ acres to make it in most crops. 1000 acres costs millions of dollars, leaving even more people behind. I don't know your age, but there were a bunch of Farm Aid concerts in the 80s. Didn't seem to do much though.

busterarm 9y ago

A majority of areas are Republican-dominant areas. If your metric is land mass, dividing on party lines is only going to get you one result.

zebrafish 9y ago

If you actually zoom in to the map, you'll see that yes, a lot of these are republican territories, but there are also a lot of democratic territories with a majority of black and latino voters. It cuts both ways.