9 ms·

What a depressingly cynical outlook. >find yourself working your entire life to support your wife You do know that lots of women have careers now right? You c

by ch4s3 9y ago

What a depressingly cynical outlook. >find yourself working your entire life to support your wife You do know that lots of women have careers now right? You can arguably do quite well as a team pooling financial resources and saving for retirement. It also makes you more resilient to changes in employment. >If you do not wand children there is no point in getting married. What if you just want to engage in a mutually meaningful tradition?

adekok 9y ago
See Florida for "lifetime alimony" Why would someone work if they can divorce, keep the kids, and get paid forever? Other states aren't quite as bad, but they're still bad: http://tomjameslaw.com/blog/what-judges-really-think-about-fathers-responses-to-court-commissioned-judicial-bias-surveys/ http://tomjameslaw.com/blog/what-judges-really-think-about-f... A study conducted in 2004 found that although the tender years doctrine had been abolished some time ago, a majority of Indiana family court judges still supported it and decided cases coming before them consistently with it.2 A survey of judges in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Tennessee found a clear preference among judges for maternal custody in general. Even in jurisdictions which have 50/50 custody as the default, judges still overwhelmingly favor one side over the other. i.e. judicial prejudice is well known, wide-spread, in defiance of the law, and ongoing. See Florida again. Action groups have successfully fought against equal custody by default, because saying "we're for equality" means "fight against equality", apparently.
- Mz 9y ago
  Why would someone work if they can divorce, keep the kids, and get paid forever? Because unless your ex is very wealthy AND your alimony increases over time to keep up with inflation, alimony tends to not adequately support a middle class lifestyle by itself. Because women tend to outlive men and tend to marry men who are older than them (average: about four years). When the ex dies, you will be penniless if you didn't also work. Because as the kids grow up, if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own, your life can wind up very empty. I'm a divorced single mom (with adult special needs kids who still live with me) who gets alimony. These are some of my reasons for working to build an income of my own.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    > the ex dies, you will be penniless if you didn't also work Why not work? After some time in divorce (immediately perhaps) you are supposed, as an adult, to support for yourself. Especially considering you're going to send children into their own lives by 50, and retirement is only coming at 65. You definitely look forward for 15 years of work even if you are absolutely devoted to raising kids. > if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own But we can only put the very latter in alimony. Can't put goals there.
    - Mz 9y ago
      > if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own But we can only put the very latter in alimony. Can't put goals there. If you got married and started a family because raising a family was a goal, alimony is related to that. Women have historically been provided for by husbands. For women, marriage has historically been a viable alternative to getting a job. It isn't like buying a lottery ticket. Being a wife and mom involves a great deal of work. Raising kids well is a goal. Once they are raised, women need to find other things to do. This seems to be lost on a great many men. Even women seem to often not see it. But it is a reality.
      - thriftwy 9y ago
        > Women have historically been provided for by husbands I hope you know that women were also historically accompanied by dowry? Just the woman herself, with her raising a family, was not considered sufficient offering to match the groom. If you hope to find a husband that would provide you towards the end of your life, you should (a) choose very carefully, and (b) have solid understanding of your own contribution. Otherwise, once your husband decides he doesn't want to spend the rest of life with you, it falls apart. There's no doubt why alimony should be paid to support underage children. There's no reason why alimony should be paid to support an adult, a healthy woman of working age.
        Mz 9y ago
        A) What gets paid to support children is called child support, not alimony. B) I spent two decades supporting my husband's career. When we divorced, he still had a well paid job and twenty years work experience. I was starting over from scratch and was "lucky" to get a better-than-minimum-wage job to start. It aggravates me that the world as a whole acts like having kids and raising them is only a financial cost to men. The fact that women give birth and then take more time off for family responsibilities helps suppress the incomes of most women. Then people don't act like this is a real cost to them. Furthermore, if you just don't want children at all, there are several viable solutions: 1) Remain celibate 2) Get a vasectomy 3) Have only homosexual sex A lot of men seem to desire sex with women, who can then have their entire life derailed due to an unexpected pregnancy, even if they use birth control, which is not 100% reliable. And then they act like women are just overentitled and lazy for wanting compensation for the very real cost to themselves. I'm a woman. I like sex with men. I have been celibate for more than 12 years for medical reasons. The difficulty involved in finding a man who is not just cavalierly willing to ruin my life for his convenience and then walk away makes me wonder if I will ever get laid again. That whole "sleeping with me will destroy your entire future" vibe is a distinct turn off for me.
- ch4s3 9y ago
  Isn't this more an argument against living and marrying in Florida than marriage per se?
  - adekok 9y ago
    Other states are better, but still have major issues.
    - ch4s3 9y ago
      We sure, but you could make that argument about anything in life. Everything involves some risk, and yet you still have to makes choices. A less cynical person might choose to engage in an exercise in trust which is risky, but highly rewarding. Why pass judgement on a choice which has very narrow externalities?

by ch4s3 9y ago

adekok 9y ago

See Florida for "lifetime alimony" Why would someone work if they can divorce, keep the kids, and get paid forever? Other states aren't quite as bad, but they're still bad: http://tomjameslaw.com/blog/what-judges-really-think-about-fathers-responses-to-court-commissioned-judicial-bias-surveys/ http://tomjameslaw.com/blog/what-judges-really-think-about-f... A study conducted in 2004 found that although the tender years doctrine had been abolished some time ago, a majority of Indiana family court judges still supported it and decided cases coming before them consistently with it.2 A survey of judges in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Tennessee found a clear preference among judges for maternal custody in general. Even in jurisdictions which have 50/50 custody as the default, judges still overwhelmingly favor one side over the other. i.e. judicial prejudice is well known, wide-spread, in defiance of the law, and ongoing. See Florida again. Action groups have successfully fought against equal custody by default, because saying "we're for equality" means "fight against equality", apparently.

Mz 9y ago
Why would someone work if they can divorce, keep the kids, and get paid forever? Because unless your ex is very wealthy AND your alimony increases over time to keep up with inflation, alimony tends to not adequately support a middle class lifestyle by itself. Because women tend to outlive men and tend to marry men who are older than them (average: about four years). When the ex dies, you will be penniless if you didn't also work. Because as the kids grow up, if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own, your life can wind up very empty. I'm a divorced single mom (with adult special needs kids who still live with me) who gets alimony. These are some of my reasons for working to build an income of my own.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  > the ex dies, you will be penniless if you didn't also work Why not work? After some time in divorce (immediately perhaps) you are supposed, as an adult, to support for yourself. Especially considering you're going to send children into their own lives by 50, and retirement is only coming at 65. You definitely look forward for 15 years of work even if you are absolutely devoted to raising kids. > if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own But we can only put the very latter in alimony. Can't put goals there.
  - Mz 9y ago
    > if you don't have goals, interests and earned income of your own But we can only put the very latter in alimony. Can't put goals there. If you got married and started a family because raising a family was a goal, alimony is related to that. Women have historically been provided for by husbands. For women, marriage has historically been a viable alternative to getting a job. It isn't like buying a lottery ticket. Being a wife and mom involves a great deal of work. Raising kids well is a goal. Once they are raised, women need to find other things to do. This seems to be lost on a great many men. Even women seem to often not see it. But it is a reality.
    - thriftwy 9y ago
      > Women have historically been provided for by husbands I hope you know that women were also historically accompanied by dowry? Just the woman herself, with her raising a family, was not considered sufficient offering to match the groom. If you hope to find a husband that would provide you towards the end of your life, you should (a) choose very carefully, and (b) have solid understanding of your own contribution. Otherwise, once your husband decides he doesn't want to spend the rest of life with you, it falls apart. There's no doubt why alimony should be paid to support underage children. There's no reason why alimony should be paid to support an adult, a healthy woman of working age.
      - Mz 9y ago
        A) What gets paid to support children is called child support, not alimony. B) I spent two decades supporting my husband's career. When we divorced, he still had a well paid job and twenty years work experience. I was starting over from scratch and was "lucky" to get a better-than-minimum-wage job to start. It aggravates me that the world as a whole acts like having kids and raising them is only a financial cost to men. The fact that women give birth and then take more time off for family responsibilities helps suppress the incomes of most women. Then people don't act like this is a real cost to them. Furthermore, if you just don't want children at all, there are several viable solutions: 1) Remain celibate 2) Get a vasectomy 3) Have only homosexual sex A lot of men seem to desire sex with women, who can then have their entire life derailed due to an unexpected pregnancy, even if they use birth control, which is not 100% reliable. And then they act like women are just overentitled and lazy for wanting compensation for the very real cost to themselves. I'm a woman. I like sex with men. I have been celibate for more than 12 years for medical reasons. The difficulty involved in finding a man who is not just cavalierly willing to ruin my life for his convenience and then walk away makes me wonder if I will ever get laid again. That whole "sleeping with me will destroy your entire future" vibe is a distinct turn off for me.
ch4s3 9y ago
Isn't this more an argument against living and marrying in Florida than marriage per se?
- adekok 9y ago
  Other states are better, but still have major issues.
  - ch4s3 9y ago
    We sure, but you could make that argument about anything in life. Everything involves some risk, and yet you still have to makes choices. A less cynical person might choose to engage in an exercise in trust which is risky, but highly rewarding. Why pass judgement on a choice which has very narrow externalities?