5 ms·

To quote Alec Baldwin's character, Ellerby, from The Departed: "Marriage is an important part of getting ahead; lets people know you're not a homo. Married guy

by mfoy_ 9y ago

To quote Alec Baldwin's character, Ellerby, from The Departed: "Marriage is an important part of getting ahead; lets people know you're not a homo. Married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think 'at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch'. Ladies see the ring, they know immediately you must have some cash or your cock must work." A touch on the homophobic and misogynistic side, but it seems relevant.

thriftwy 9y ago
Once marrying becomes an unfortunate choice, it starts to signal the opposite. "This guy is so desperate he had to marry"
- mfoy_ 9y ago
  That frame of mind implies that marriage is something women want and something men do not want. Why? It sounds like you're making some weird assumptions about sex-positivity, child-rearing, or finances.
  - msla 9y ago
    Or just making assumptions about how well single women get on in life, which is, in turn, an assumption about how well women do in the workforce. If a woman's best life strategy is to get married so she doesn't have to take in laundry or become a shopgirl or take some similar low-pay/low-status job, marriage becomes seen as something the man is roped into, because men can (presumably) do just fine for themselves on their own, and, perhaps, are better off financially without "The Little Woman" to support. Dual-income households destroy that pretty well, but notice how universal such thinking was in the pop culture of the 1940s and 1950s. It's one more example of how all social effects are interrelated: It's hard to be sex-positive if the common STDs are effectively incurable, or require chemotherapy (vide mercury treatment for syphilis) to even attempt to cure. It's impossible to have same-sex marriage if your legal system has coverture, which means a marriage is a union of the husband and wife into the legal personality of the husband. It's impossible to take a modern view of marriage as something which can be put off if fully one half of the population depends on it to have a good life.
    - dpark 9y ago
      > or require chemotherapy (vide mercury treatment for syphilis) Huh? Syphilis has been curable with antibiotics since penicillin. I don't think mercury is a common treatment for syphilis at this point.
      - msla 9y ago
        That's my point: If you're treating syphilis with mercury, it's hard to have sex-positive culture.
        dpark 9y ago
        My apologies. I misread your comment and didn't interpret that part in the context of the "1940s and 1950s".
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    As the article implies and also is said in comments, a lot of additional burden were placed on men in marriage. That could easily lead for many marriage to become "toxic assets" - i.e. you would be better without one. Disclaimer: I am happily married.
- rayiner 9y ago
  The recent trend has been the opposite: https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-for-rich-people https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-fo.... Since 1970, marriage rates for men at the top of the income distribution have dropped less than 10%. For men in the bottom quartile, it has dropped 35%.
godelmachine 9y ago
Could I upvote this 1000 times?
tarsinge 9y ago
Just seeming more stable is enough to increase trust from others (like many others signals, like a salesperson/bank employee is usually clean and well-dressed)

by mfoy_ 9y ago

thriftwy 9y ago

Once marrying becomes an unfortunate choice, it starts to signal the opposite. "This guy is so desperate he had to marry"

mfoy_ 9y ago
That frame of mind implies that marriage is something women want and something men do not want. Why? It sounds like you're making some weird assumptions about sex-positivity, child-rearing, or finances.
- msla 9y ago
  Or just making assumptions about how well single women get on in life, which is, in turn, an assumption about how well women do in the workforce. If a woman's best life strategy is to get married so she doesn't have to take in laundry or become a shopgirl or take some similar low-pay/low-status job, marriage becomes seen as something the man is roped into, because men can (presumably) do just fine for themselves on their own, and, perhaps, are better off financially without "The Little Woman" to support. Dual-income households destroy that pretty well, but notice how universal such thinking was in the pop culture of the 1940s and 1950s. It's one more example of how all social effects are interrelated: It's hard to be sex-positive if the common STDs are effectively incurable, or require chemotherapy (vide mercury treatment for syphilis) to even attempt to cure. It's impossible to have same-sex marriage if your legal system has coverture, which means a marriage is a union of the husband and wife into the legal personality of the husband. It's impossible to take a modern view of marriage as something which can be put off if fully one half of the population depends on it to have a good life.
  - dpark 9y ago
    > or require chemotherapy (vide mercury treatment for syphilis) Huh? Syphilis has been curable with antibiotics since penicillin. I don't think mercury is a common treatment for syphilis at this point.
    - msla 9y ago
      That's my point: If you're treating syphilis with mercury, it's hard to have sex-positive culture.
      - dpark 9y ago
        My apologies. I misread your comment and didn't interpret that part in the context of the "1940s and 1950s".
- thriftwy 9y ago
  As the article implies and also is said in comments, a lot of additional burden were placed on men in marriage. That could easily lead for many marriage to become "toxic assets" - i.e. you would be better without one. Disclaimer: I am happily married.
rayiner 9y ago
The recent trend has been the opposite: https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-for-rich-people https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-fo.... Since 1970, marriage rates for men at the top of the income distribution have dropped less than 10%. For men in the bottom quartile, it has dropped 35%.

godelmachine 9y ago

Could I upvote this 1000 times?

tarsinge 9y ago

Just seeming more stable is enough to increase trust from others (like many others signals, like a salesperson/bank employee is usually clean and well-dressed)