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> But here Uber was directly involved in enabling sexual assault and misleading the victim I can't really comment on the "misleading" charge (and it seems pret

by tomp 9y ago

> But here Uber was directly involved in enabling sexual assault and misleading the victim I can't really comment on the "misleading" charge (and it seems pretty vague in your quotes as well), but "directly involved in enabling sexual assault" is FUD like no other - if that's your claim, then every employeer is "directly involved"! At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are!

pjc50 9y ago
Uber can't deflect responsibility for this onto the police if they refused to pass it on in the first place and then didn't provide information when asked.
buro9 9y ago
> At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are! This is the point of the article. ULL is regulated by TfL and are required to report serious crimes to the police in a timely manner. They haven't done so, by their own policy, and this has resulted in repeat offences of sexual crimes. You may now say "the victim should report it", but be aware that you will be blaming the victim here, and the victims did report it... directly to Uber. Uber, who are required to notify the police and failed to do so in a timely way and that allowed repeat offences to occur.
- pjc50 9y ago
  I think by reading the linked letter that Uber aren't legally required to pass crime reports on to the police, but it seems that everyone assumes they have a moral responsibility to do so. I suspect all the other cab firms have a working relationship with the police in this regard.
  - buro9 9y ago
    Just read the operator guidelines and compliance guidelines. They appear to be obliged to fully investigate all complaints and resolve them within 6 months and to keep full records for a further 6 months after that date. I suspect the police and regulators' interpretation is that they (Uber) cannot possibly investigate sexual offences and so the only correct handling of such a complaint is to immediately notify the police. But you are correct... the phrasing is ambiguous in the guidelines. But then... UK law :) everything is ambiguous and the default is whatever a "reasonable person" (typically a judge and jury, but in this case the regulator themselves) would interpret the guidelines as being.
  - dx034 9y ago
    Not just the moral responsibility. They mustn't endanger passengers safety. Not reporting sexual assault to the police with the consequence of it happening again appears to violate that.
yeukhon 9y ago
There are two parts to this. First, we don't know how the conversations went between Uber and the vitcims, because both viticms seen to have the impressions Uber would report this to the police, which is odd given the viticms should report to the police first. But on the other hand, Uber should work with the viticms to ensure the viticms are reporting to the police. Imaginr you were sexually assaulted on the train, on campus, or at work, not only you should contact the police yourself, but the administration should engage in aid. A train station worker shouldn't just stand next to a vitcim and say well the alleged attacker denies it so we are lettig the attack go. If you were assaulted at work, you should find someone you can trust and go to either the HR and call the cops. Uber is not responsible for the attack, but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved, because Uber's reputation and customer trust are at stake. Every company should have a crisis protocol. On the other hand, I can't think of better example than Uber's toxic company cultute. Harassments gone to blackhole with HR....
- tomp 9y ago
  > but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved, I disagree. Customers expecting this results in the awkward situation we're in today. If instead we train people to rely on themselves (and the police), many of these situations could be avoided (or, at least, resolved in a better way).
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    You missed my early point. Please read what I wrote. I advocate viticms to report first. But Uber has the responsibility to ensure these allegations are rightfully documented. If someone punched you in the face at Starbuck, what is the first thing the worker say to you? "Are you okay?" What else will the worker say? "What happened? Do you want me to call 911?" Usually stores have policy to notify manager so the manager can decide what to do. If Uber treat this kind of allegations as a normal support ticket, and nothing is done, well, fml. It better now come up with a better protocol so the support team has a manaul book to follow.

by tomp 9y ago

pjc50 9y ago

Uber can't deflect responsibility for this onto the police if they refused to pass it on in the first place and then didn't provide information when asked.

buro9 9y ago

> At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are! This is the point of the article. ULL is regulated by TfL and are required to report serious crimes to the police in a timely manner. They haven't done so, by their own policy, and this has resulted in repeat offences of sexual crimes. You may now say "the victim should report it", but be aware that you will be blaming the victim here, and the victims did report it... directly to Uber. Uber, who are required to notify the police and failed to do so in a timely way and that allowed repeat offences to occur.

pjc50 9y ago
I think by reading the linked letter that Uber aren't legally required to pass crime reports on to the police, but it seems that everyone assumes they have a moral responsibility to do so. I suspect all the other cab firms have a working relationship with the police in this regard.
- buro9 9y ago
  Just read the operator guidelines and compliance guidelines. They appear to be obliged to fully investigate all complaints and resolve them within 6 months and to keep full records for a further 6 months after that date. I suspect the police and regulators' interpretation is that they (Uber) cannot possibly investigate sexual offences and so the only correct handling of such a complaint is to immediately notify the police. But you are correct... the phrasing is ambiguous in the guidelines. But then... UK law :) everything is ambiguous and the default is whatever a "reasonable person" (typically a judge and jury, but in this case the regulator themselves) would interpret the guidelines as being.
- dx034 9y ago
  Not just the moral responsibility. They mustn't endanger passengers safety. Not reporting sexual assault to the police with the consequence of it happening again appears to violate that.

yeukhon 9y ago

There are two parts to this. First, we don't know how the conversations went between Uber and the vitcims, because both viticms seen to have the impressions Uber would report this to the police, which is odd given the viticms should report to the police first. But on the other hand, Uber should work with the viticms to ensure the viticms are reporting to the police. Imaginr you were sexually assaulted on the train, on campus, or at work, not only you should contact the police yourself, but the administration should engage in aid. A train station worker shouldn't just stand next to a vitcim and say well the alleged attacker denies it so we are lettig the attack go. If you were assaulted at work, you should find someone you can trust and go to either the HR and call the cops. Uber is not responsible for the attack, but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved, because Uber's reputation and customer trust are at stake. Every company should have a crisis protocol. On the other hand, I can't think of better example than Uber's toxic company cultute. Harassments gone to blackhole with HR....

tomp 9y ago
> but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved, I disagree. Customers expecting this results in the awkward situation we're in today. If instead we train people to rely on themselves (and the police), many of these situations could be avoided (or, at least, resolved in a better way).
- yeukhon 9y ago
  You missed my early point. Please read what I wrote. I advocate viticms to report first. But Uber has the responsibility to ensure these allegations are rightfully documented. If someone punched you in the face at Starbuck, what is the first thing the worker say to you? "Are you okay?" What else will the worker say? "What happened? Do you want me to call 911?" Usually stores have policy to notify manager so the manager can decide what to do. If Uber treat this kind of allegations as a normal support ticket, and nothing is done, well, fml. It better now come up with a better protocol so the support team has a manaul book to follow.