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People should report crimes to police, they shouldn't report them to school or company. Everyone who tells the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is not at f

People should report crimes to police, they shouldn't report them to school or company. Everyone who tells the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is not at fault in this situation and it doesn't enable anything.

pjc50 9y ago
This is not what the Metropolitan Police think. https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Helen-Chapman_Redacted-1.pdf https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Hele...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kemerover 9y ago
  If I understood the letter correctly, what Uber did was not illegal. And if I understand how police works in most countries, if you report a crime to police they are obliged to investigate it So my point stands. If you think that people shouldn't report crimes, you enable crimes. "‘strongly under the impression’ that they would." is a laughable excuse. What did Uber do that would provide a strong impression, yet wasn't enough to be accused of being misleading in court? If what Uber did is illegal in UK, they should face punishment. But as far as I can tell, they did nothing illegal in this situation.
  - _jal 9y ago
    I see lots of folks trying out an argument along the lines of, "if Uber managers aren't being marched in front of magistrates, then everything's peachy and Leave Uber Alloooone!" I can't wait for the ads "Uber - not officially a criminal enterprise yet!" Unfortunately, this argument ignores the fact that requirements for unusual privileges - like running massive fleets of vehicles on public streets - are a bit higher than the requirements for staying out of jail. Reporting sexual assault is not exactly difficult. Whether it is a cynical PR issue, some weird philosophical thing, or simply bizarre institutional/emotional damage around sexual assault[1], Uber has a problem that they are apparently incapable of handling, even with years, warnings and a near complete change of management. It really is freakish. [1] Given so many different incidents handled over multiple years in multiple countries, that their competitors don't seem to have the same problem with, I'm starting to wonder, frankly.
  - namelost 9y ago
    Nobody is suggesting that Uber did anything illegal, their licence to operate is being revoked.
    - kemerover 9y ago
      And I didn't suggest that it shouldn't be revoked.
Retra 9y ago
Businesses should also report crimes to the police. A business who does the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is at fault in this situation and directly enables sexual assault. The only difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I imply Uber is run by people and you imply they are a force of nature (or something.)
- kemerover 9y ago
  If you've been a victim of a crime, you should report it. If you've witnessed a crime, you should report it too. Otherwise you enable criminals. If you were told that there were a crime by a random person, you don't have to report it. I think it is as simple as that. I don't think or imply that Uber is a force of nature, I don't know where you got this idea from.
wukerplank 9y ago
> Uber is not at fault in this situation Keeping a sexual predator as a driver is the right choice?
- Spivak 9y ago
  Oh come on there's way more nuance to this issue than you're letting on. Taking away a person's livelihood can be just as bad as a jail sentence and you're acting like companies should act as judge and executioner in the court of public opinion. What's the point of even having a justice system when we can dispatch a lifetime of suffering by blacklisting suspected criminals from employment? This whole things seems just like "But her emails!" where people are latching onto anything they can to justify their dislike for something they already hate.
  - GrantSolar 9y ago
    Is there really that much more nuance? Uber received a complaint of sexual assault by a driver. The victim was under the impression that Uber would contact the police. Uber did not contact the police and continued to employ the driver. Uber then received a second complaint of sexual assault by the same driver. The second victim was "strongly under the impression" that the police would be contacted. The police were not contacted. In this situation, Uber are complicit in the second sexual assault to at least some degree. (Perhaps they carried out a thorough investigation which presented nothing. Perhaps they did not carry out an investigation again). They are complicit in any further sexual assaults this driver carries out. With regards to "Taking away a person's livelihood", that's precisely what a police investigation and CRB/DBS checks are for. The driver simply should not be allowed in such a position if they have a history of sexual assault. No-one is asking for the company to "act as judge and executioner" (in fact, in this case the company is doing exactly that except ruling not-guilty), merely to alert the appropriate authorities so that a legitimate investigation can be carried out according to the established judicial system.
    - kemerover 9y ago
      If Uber is complicit, where are the charges? Where are the fines? Where are managers getting jailed for concealment of a crime? Is there even a prosecution?

pjc50 9y ago

This is not what the Metropolitan Police think. https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Helen-Chapman_Redacted-1.pdf https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Hele...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kemerover 9y ago
If I understood the letter correctly, what Uber did was not illegal. And if I understand how police works in most countries, if you report a crime to police they are obliged to investigate it So my point stands. If you think that people shouldn't report crimes, you enable crimes. "‘strongly under the impression’ that they would." is a laughable excuse. What did Uber do that would provide a strong impression, yet wasn't enough to be accused of being misleading in court? If what Uber did is illegal in UK, they should face punishment. But as far as I can tell, they did nothing illegal in this situation.
- _jal 9y ago
  I see lots of folks trying out an argument along the lines of, "if Uber managers aren't being marched in front of magistrates, then everything's peachy and Leave Uber Alloooone!" I can't wait for the ads "Uber - not officially a criminal enterprise yet!" Unfortunately, this argument ignores the fact that requirements for unusual privileges - like running massive fleets of vehicles on public streets - are a bit higher than the requirements for staying out of jail. Reporting sexual assault is not exactly difficult. Whether it is a cynical PR issue, some weird philosophical thing, or simply bizarre institutional/emotional damage around sexual assault[1], Uber has a problem that they are apparently incapable of handling, even with years, warnings and a near complete change of management. It really is freakish. [1] Given so many different incidents handled over multiple years in multiple countries, that their competitors don't seem to have the same problem with, I'm starting to wonder, frankly.
- namelost 9y ago
  Nobody is suggesting that Uber did anything illegal, their licence to operate is being revoked.
  - kemerover 9y ago
    And I didn't suggest that it shouldn't be revoked.

Retra 9y ago

Businesses should also report crimes to the police. A business who does the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is at fault in this situation and directly enables sexual assault. The only difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I imply Uber is run by people and you imply they are a force of nature (or something.)

kemerover 9y ago
If you've been a victim of a crime, you should report it. If you've witnessed a crime, you should report it too. Otherwise you enable criminals. If you were told that there were a crime by a random person, you don't have to report it. I think it is as simple as that. I don't think or imply that Uber is a force of nature, I don't know where you got this idea from.

wukerplank 9y ago

> Uber is not at fault in this situation Keeping a sexual predator as a driver is the right choice?

Spivak 9y ago
Oh come on there's way more nuance to this issue than you're letting on. Taking away a person's livelihood can be just as bad as a jail sentence and you're acting like companies should act as judge and executioner in the court of public opinion. What's the point of even having a justice system when we can dispatch a lifetime of suffering by blacklisting suspected criminals from employment? This whole things seems just like "But her emails!" where people are latching onto anything they can to justify their dislike for something they already hate.
- GrantSolar 9y ago
  Is there really that much more nuance? Uber received a complaint of sexual assault by a driver. The victim was under the impression that Uber would contact the police. Uber did not contact the police and continued to employ the driver. Uber then received a second complaint of sexual assault by the same driver. The second victim was "strongly under the impression" that the police would be contacted. The police were not contacted. In this situation, Uber are complicit in the second sexual assault to at least some degree. (Perhaps they carried out a thorough investigation which presented nothing. Perhaps they did not carry out an investigation again). They are complicit in any further sexual assaults this driver carries out. With regards to "Taking away a person's livelihood", that's precisely what a police investigation and CRB/DBS checks are for. The driver simply should not be allowed in such a position if they have a history of sexual assault. No-one is asking for the company to "act as judge and executioner" (in fact, in this case the company is doing exactly that except ruling not-guilty), merely to alert the appropriate authorities so that a legitimate investigation can be carried out according to the established judicial system.
  - kemerover 9y ago
    If Uber is complicit, where are the charges? Where are the fines? Where are managers getting jailed for concealment of a crime? Is there even a prosecution?