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Of all the things that have been revealed about Uber, this is among the worst: “The facts are that on the 30 January 2016 a female was sexually assaulted by an

Of all the things that have been revealed about Uber, this is among the worst: “The facts are that on the 30 January 2016 a female was sexually assaulted by an Uber driver. From what we can ascertain Uber have spoken to the driver who denied the offence. Uber have continued to employ the driver and have done nothing more. While Uber did not say they would contact the police the victim believed that they would inform the police on her behalf. On the 10 May 2016 the same driver has committed a second more serious sexual assault against a different passenger Again Uber haven’t said to this victim they would contact the police, but she was, to use her words, ‘strongly under the impression’ that they would.” Horrible things will happen at scale. But here Uber was directly involved in enabling sexual assault and misleading the victim. EDIT - some comments believe that this is overly harsh in judging Uber: 1) Uber has had ongoing issues with sexual assault in the US preceding this event. If preventing sexual assault was a priority they would have designed the right policy. Lack of strong policy on sexual assault is an explicit choice: “firstly it seems they are deciding what to report (less serious matters / less damaging to reputation over serious offences) and secondly by not reporting to police promptly they are allowing situations to develop that clearly affect the safety and security of the public.” * 2) If a serious crime (like this one) is suspected, companies have an obligation to report this and not just conduct their own investigations which will have an inherent bias. 3) Both passengers came away with the impression that Uber was going to take action. If Uber had no intent to take action, this made the situation worse by reducing the likelihood of direct reporting and enabling further sexual assault. * https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Helen-Chapman_Redacted-1.pdf https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Hele...

kemerover 9y ago
People should report crimes to police, they shouldn't report them to school or company. Everyone who tells the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is not at fault in this situation and it doesn't enable anything.
- pjc50 9y ago
  This is not what the Metropolitan Police think. https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Helen-Chapman_Redacted-1.pdf https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Hele...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kemerover 9y ago
    If I understood the letter correctly, what Uber did was not illegal. And if I understand how police works in most countries, if you report a crime to police they are obliged to investigate it So my point stands. If you think that people shouldn't report crimes, you enable crimes. "‘strongly under the impression’ that they would." is a laughable excuse. What did Uber do that would provide a strong impression, yet wasn't enough to be accused of being misleading in court? If what Uber did is illegal in UK, they should face punishment. But as far as I can tell, they did nothing illegal in this situation.
    - _jal 9y ago
      I see lots of folks trying out an argument along the lines of, "if Uber managers aren't being marched in front of magistrates, then everything's peachy and Leave Uber Alloooone!" I can't wait for the ads "Uber - not officially a criminal enterprise yet!" Unfortunately, this argument ignores the fact that requirements for unusual privileges - like running massive fleets of vehicles on public streets - are a bit higher than the requirements for staying out of jail. Reporting sexual assault is not exactly difficult. Whether it is a cynical PR issue, some weird philosophical thing, or simply bizarre institutional/emotional damage around sexual assault[1], Uber has a problem that they are apparently incapable of handling, even with years, warnings and a near complete change of management. It really is freakish. [1] Given so many different incidents handled over multiple years in multiple countries, that their competitors don't seem to have the same problem with, I'm starting to wonder, frankly.
    - namelost 9y ago
      Nobody is suggesting that Uber did anything illegal, their licence to operate is being revoked.
- Retra 9y ago
  Businesses should also report crimes to the police. A business who does the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is at fault in this situation and directly enables sexual assault. The only difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I imply Uber is run by people and you imply they are a force of nature (or something.)
  - kemerover 9y ago
    If you've been a victim of a crime, you should report it. If you've witnessed a crime, you should report it too. Otherwise you enable criminals. If you were told that there were a crime by a random person, you don't have to report it. I think it is as simple as that. I don't think or imply that Uber is a force of nature, I don't know where you got this idea from.
- wukerplank 9y ago
  > Uber is not at fault in this situation Keeping a sexual predator as a driver is the right choice?
  - Spivak 9y ago
    Oh come on there's way more nuance to this issue than you're letting on. Taking away a person's livelihood can be just as bad as a jail sentence and you're acting like companies should act as judge and executioner in the court of public opinion. What's the point of even having a justice system when we can dispatch a lifetime of suffering by blacklisting suspected criminals from employment? This whole things seems just like "But her emails!" where people are latching onto anything they can to justify their dislike for something they already hate.
    - GrantSolar 9y ago
      Is there really that much more nuance? Uber received a complaint of sexual assault by a driver. The victim was under the impression that Uber would contact the police. Uber did not contact the police and continued to employ the driver. Uber then received a second complaint of sexual assault by the same driver. The second victim was "strongly under the impression" that the police would be contacted. The police were not contacted. In this situation, Uber are complicit in the second sexual assault to at least some degree. (Perhaps they carried out a thorough investigation which presented nothing. Perhaps they did not carry out an investigation again). They are complicit in any further sexual assaults this driver carries out. With regards to "Taking away a person's livelihood", that's precisely what a police investigation and CRB/DBS checks are for. The driver simply should not be allowed in such a position if they have a history of sexual assault. No-one is asking for the company to "act as judge and executioner" (in fact, in this case the company is doing exactly that except ruling not-guilty), merely to alert the appropriate authorities so that a legitimate investigation can be carried out according to the established judicial system.
      - kemerover 9y ago
        If Uber is complicit, where are the charges? Where are the fines? Where are managers getting jailed for concealment of a crime? Is there even a prosecution?
tomp 9y ago
> But here Uber was directly involved in enabling sexual assault and misleading the victim I can't really comment on the "misleading" charge (and it seems pretty vague in your quotes as well), but "directly involved in enabling sexual assault" is FUD like no other - if that's your claim, then every employeer is "directly involved"! At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are!
- pjc50 9y ago
  Uber can't deflect responsibility for this onto the police if they refused to pass it on in the first place and then didn't provide information when asked.
- buro9 9y ago
  > At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are! This is the point of the article. ULL is regulated by TfL and are required to report serious crimes to the police in a timely manner. They haven't done so, by their own policy, and this has resulted in repeat offences of sexual crimes. You may now say "the victim should report it", but be aware that you will be blaming the victim here, and the victims did report it... directly to Uber. Uber, who are required to notify the police and failed to do so in a timely way and that allowed repeat offences to occur.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    I think by reading the linked letter that Uber aren't legally required to pass crime reports on to the police, but it seems that everyone assumes they have a moral responsibility to do so. I suspect all the other cab firms have a working relationship with the police in this regard.
    - buro9 9y ago
      Just read the operator guidelines and compliance guidelines. They appear to be obliged to fully investigate all complaints and resolve them within 6 months and to keep full records for a further 6 months after that date. I suspect the police and regulators' interpretation is that they (Uber) cannot possibly investigate sexual offences and so the only correct handling of such a complaint is to immediately notify the police. But you are correct... the phrasing is ambiguous in the guidelines. But then... UK law :) everything is ambiguous and the default is whatever a "reasonable person" (typically a judge and jury, but in this case the regulator themselves) would interpret the guidelines as being.
eyko 9y ago
Here's Uber's respose to the Met Police's letter with their version of the story: https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/how-uber-in-london-works-with-the-metropolitan-police/ https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/how-uber-in-london-works-wit... > A complaint was made that, following a trip, a driver got out of the car and hugged a female passenger. This violates our community guidelines and the driver was prevented from using our app while we investigated. He was subsequently given clear direction concerning his alleged behaviour prior to being reinstated on the app. When a second complaint was made some time later, of the same driver touching a rider’s leg, it was decided that we could no longer maintain our partnership with the driver and he was permanently stopped from using our app. At the same time we informed TfL of the allegations in order that they could consider revoking his private hire licence and prevent him from working with any other operators in London. We deal with all complaints on a case by case basis but swiftly identify and deal with any pattern of alleged behaviour such as this. As stated above, we also advise individuals to report incidents to the police and support them in doing so.
- theptip 9y ago
  From the OP: > Both cases were charged as sexual assaults and are at court next week for hearing... While Uber did not say they would contact the police the victim believed that they would inform the police on her behalf. The fact that the victim thought Uber would contact the police, and that the prosecutor has decided there's a case to hear, suggests that this was more than "a hug". We don't have all the information here, but I'm quite uneasy with this downplaying of a potential sexual assault (one that is currently being heard in court). > Uber hold a position not to report crime on the basis that it may breach the rights of the passenger. When asked what the position would be in the hypothetical case of a driver who commits a serious sexual assault against a passenger they confirmed that they would dismiss the driver and report to TfL, but not inform the police. Regardless of whether the individual case doesn't sound bad in Uber's telling, their stated position on a hypothetical serious sexual assault is very concerning. Either way it shows either disregard or ignorance for the regulatory environment under which they operate. (It sounds to me like ignorance, since they did report the driver to TfL, and neglected to inform the police as required).
grecy 9y ago
How often do you think this kind of thing happens with regular taxis? public transport? My gut says it's extremely common, you just are not hearing about it.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  Well between the established facts with Uber and some internet person's "gut feeling" I guess I would discount the latter. I can't even believe people are making excuses for Uber like this.
  - GrantSolar 9y ago
    In addition to this, the comment you're replying to comes across as dismissive of the issue on the basis of it being common elsewhere. In other words, "TfL are not justified in taking punitive measures against Uber for deliberately failing to report sexual assault because other places also fail to report sexual assault". Needless to say, that sort of apologia is horrific Perhaps I'm reading more into the comment than was intended, perhaps that is the correct amount.
- WisNorCan 9y ago
  I am not following your defense of Uber. Let’s assume sexual assault is equally common among Uber drivers and regular taxi drivers. It is still not material to the complaint. The complaint is that regulators are getting adequate and timely reporting from regular taxi companies so they can investigate. But not from Uber. This is leading to unnecessary safety issues for Uber riders.
  - SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
    I don't read it as a defense, its a necessary prerequisite question to ask to put this situation in its proper context. Every sexual assault is horrific - but what if we look closer and discover that the rate of sexual assaults per ride from Uber is less than that from established cab services? That completely inverts the situation and we would need to ask "What is Uber doing right, and how can the other services emulate their success?" What if we discover they are about the same? Well, then Uber isn't anything exceptional and we have an industry-wide problem that needs addressing at all levels. Either way, we don't even know where the real problem is if we don't start with those kinds of questions.
rorykoehler 9y ago
I don't understand what reality a person lives in where their first response after a crime as serious as sexual assault is to go complain to Uber rather than go directly to the police. That said Uber should have advised the victim to contact the police immediately.
- DanBC 9y ago
  You don't understand the reality of sexual assault, where many victims don't report to police because of precisely the kind of bullshit dismissal we see in this thread.
  - lerie82 9y ago
    Who are you to decide what someone understands? If someone is sexually assaulted and reports it to Uber and not the police, I'd bet money that person is a liar.
    - gr3yh47 9y ago
      >If someone is sexually assaulted and reports it to Uber and not the police, >that person is a liar. non sequitur
      - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
        What is going on with this site? Have these people never used UBER before??? The reason they are reporting it to Uber is because when you get out of the car, you are immediately prompted for a rating and a TIP for the driver! Uber is almost forcing you to report a driver who makes you feel uncomfortable. I'm not saying they shouldn't call the police AFTER. But there is nothing strange about them reporting this instance through Uber's channels.
        SyneRyder 9y ago
        when you get out of the car, you are immediately prompted for a rating and a TIP for the driver! Uber is almost forcing you to report a driver who makes you feel uncomfortable. Not only that, but if you get out of the car before you reach your destination, Uber displays a large dialog asking if everything is okay and if you need to report a problem. I can't find a screenshot of that exact dialog, but it included some of the options at the bottom of this screenshot (eg I was involved in an accident, My driver was unprofessional.) https://media.consumeraffairs.com/files/reviews/uber_163101.PNG https://media.consumeraffairs.com/files/reviews/uber_163101....
vonnik 9y ago
And even more damning: "In total, Uber had failed to report six sexual assaults, two public order offences and one assault to the police. This had lead to delays of up to 7 months before they were investigated. Particularly damning, with the public order offences this meant that in both cases the prosecution time limit had passed before the police became aware of them."
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
Context: When a local cab driver does anything like this, it is local news implicating a small local company if that. When an uber driver does anything like this, it is international news. I think this should factor in to your risk assessment of using Uber versus any other service.
KekDemaga 9y ago
>If a serious crime (like this one) is suspected, companies have an obligation to report this and not just conduct their own investigations which will have an inherent bias. Why are rape accusations ever investigated outside of a legal context by police? They do the same thing in colleges and it boggles my mind how anyone would think that's a good course of action.

kemerover 9y ago

People should report crimes to police, they shouldn't report them to school or company. Everyone who tells the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is not at fault in this situation and it doesn't enable anything.

pjc50 9y ago
This is not what the Metropolitan Police think. https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Helen-Chapman_Redacted-1.pdf https://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/12042017-NB-to-Hele...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kemerover 9y ago
  If I understood the letter correctly, what Uber did was not illegal. And if I understand how police works in most countries, if you report a crime to police they are obliged to investigate it So my point stands. If you think that people shouldn't report crimes, you enable crimes. "‘strongly under the impression’ that they would." is a laughable excuse. What did Uber do that would provide a strong impression, yet wasn't enough to be accused of being misleading in court? If what Uber did is illegal in UK, they should face punishment. But as far as I can tell, they did nothing illegal in this situation.
  - _jal 9y ago
    I see lots of folks trying out an argument along the lines of, "if Uber managers aren't being marched in front of magistrates, then everything's peachy and Leave Uber Alloooone!" I can't wait for the ads "Uber - not officially a criminal enterprise yet!" Unfortunately, this argument ignores the fact that requirements for unusual privileges - like running massive fleets of vehicles on public streets - are a bit higher than the requirements for staying out of jail. Reporting sexual assault is not exactly difficult. Whether it is a cynical PR issue, some weird philosophical thing, or simply bizarre institutional/emotional damage around sexual assault[1], Uber has a problem that they are apparently incapable of handling, even with years, warnings and a near complete change of management. It really is freakish. [1] Given so many different incidents handled over multiple years in multiple countries, that their competitors don't seem to have the same problem with, I'm starting to wonder, frankly.
  - namelost 9y ago
    Nobody is suggesting that Uber did anything illegal, their licence to operate is being revoked.
Retra 9y ago
Businesses should also report crimes to the police. A business who does the opposite enables sexual assault. Uber is at fault in this situation and directly enables sexual assault. The only difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that I imply Uber is run by people and you imply they are a force of nature (or something.)
- kemerover 9y ago
  If you've been a victim of a crime, you should report it. If you've witnessed a crime, you should report it too. Otherwise you enable criminals. If you were told that there were a crime by a random person, you don't have to report it. I think it is as simple as that. I don't think or imply that Uber is a force of nature, I don't know where you got this idea from.
wukerplank 9y ago
> Uber is not at fault in this situation Keeping a sexual predator as a driver is the right choice?
- Spivak 9y ago
  Oh come on there's way more nuance to this issue than you're letting on. Taking away a person's livelihood can be just as bad as a jail sentence and you're acting like companies should act as judge and executioner in the court of public opinion. What's the point of even having a justice system when we can dispatch a lifetime of suffering by blacklisting suspected criminals from employment? This whole things seems just like "But her emails!" where people are latching onto anything they can to justify their dislike for something they already hate.
  - GrantSolar 9y ago
    Is there really that much more nuance? Uber received a complaint of sexual assault by a driver. The victim was under the impression that Uber would contact the police. Uber did not contact the police and continued to employ the driver. Uber then received a second complaint of sexual assault by the same driver. The second victim was "strongly under the impression" that the police would be contacted. The police were not contacted. In this situation, Uber are complicit in the second sexual assault to at least some degree. (Perhaps they carried out a thorough investigation which presented nothing. Perhaps they did not carry out an investigation again). They are complicit in any further sexual assaults this driver carries out. With regards to "Taking away a person's livelihood", that's precisely what a police investigation and CRB/DBS checks are for. The driver simply should not be allowed in such a position if they have a history of sexual assault. No-one is asking for the company to "act as judge and executioner" (in fact, in this case the company is doing exactly that except ruling not-guilty), merely to alert the appropriate authorities so that a legitimate investigation can be carried out according to the established judicial system.
    - kemerover 9y ago
      If Uber is complicit, where are the charges? Where are the fines? Where are managers getting jailed for concealment of a crime? Is there even a prosecution?

tomp 9y ago

> But here Uber was directly involved in enabling sexual assault and misleading the victim I can't really comment on the "misleading" charge (and it seems pretty vague in your quotes as well), but "directly involved in enabling sexual assault" is FUD like no other - if that's your claim, then every employeer is "directly involved"! At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are!

pjc50 9y ago
Uber can't deflect responsibility for this onto the police if they refused to pass it on in the first place and then didn't provide information when asked.
buro9 9y ago
> At the end of the day, Uber isn't (and shouldn't be) responsible (nor qualified) for solving (sex) crime - the police are! This is the point of the article. ULL is regulated by TfL and are required to report serious crimes to the police in a timely manner. They haven't done so, by their own policy, and this has resulted in repeat offences of sexual crimes. You may now say "the victim should report it", but be aware that you will be blaming the victim here, and the victims did report it... directly to Uber. Uber, who are required to notify the police and failed to do so in a timely way and that allowed repeat offences to occur.
- pjc50 9y ago
  I think by reading the linked letter that Uber aren't legally required to pass crime reports on to the police, but it seems that everyone assumes they have a moral responsibility to do so. I suspect all the other cab firms have a working relationship with the police in this regard.
  - buro9 9y ago
    Just read the operator guidelines and compliance guidelines. They appear to be obliged to fully investigate all complaints and resolve them within 6 months and to keep full records for a further 6 months after that date. I suspect the police and regulators' interpretation is that they (Uber) cannot possibly investigate sexual offences and so the only correct handling of such a complaint is to immediately notify the police. But you are correct... the phrasing is ambiguous in the guidelines. But then... UK law :) everything is ambiguous and the default is whatever a "reasonable person" (typically a judge and jury, but in this case the regulator themselves) would interpret the guidelines as being.

eyko 9y ago

Here's Uber's respose to the Met Police's letter with their version of the story: https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/how-uber-in-london-works-with-the-metropolitan-police/ https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/how-uber-in-london-works-wit... > A complaint was made that, following a trip, a driver got out of the car and hugged a female passenger. This violates our community guidelines and the driver was prevented from using our app while we investigated. He was subsequently given clear direction concerning his alleged behaviour prior to being reinstated on the app. When a second complaint was made some time later, of the same driver touching a rider’s leg, it was decided that we could no longer maintain our partnership with the driver and he was permanently stopped from using our app. At the same time we informed TfL of the allegations in order that they could consider revoking his private hire licence and prevent him from working with any other operators in London. We deal with all complaints on a case by case basis but swiftly identify and deal with any pattern of alleged behaviour such as this. As stated above, we also advise individuals to report incidents to the police and support them in doing so.

theptip 9y ago
From the OP: > Both cases were charged as sexual assaults and are at court next week for hearing... While Uber did not say they would contact the police the victim believed that they would inform the police on her behalf. The fact that the victim thought Uber would contact the police, and that the prosecutor has decided there's a case to hear, suggests that this was more than "a hug". We don't have all the information here, but I'm quite uneasy with this downplaying of a potential sexual assault (one that is currently being heard in court). > Uber hold a position not to report crime on the basis that it may breach the rights of the passenger. When asked what the position would be in the hypothetical case of a driver who commits a serious sexual assault against a passenger they confirmed that they would dismiss the driver and report to TfL, but not inform the police. Regardless of whether the individual case doesn't sound bad in Uber's telling, their stated position on a hypothetical serious sexual assault is very concerning. Either way it shows either disregard or ignorance for the regulatory environment under which they operate. (It sounds to me like ignorance, since they did report the driver to TfL, and neglected to inform the police as required).

grecy 9y ago

How often do you think this kind of thing happens with regular taxis? public transport? My gut says it's extremely common, you just are not hearing about it.

wavefunction 9y ago
Well between the established facts with Uber and some internet person's "gut feeling" I guess I would discount the latter. I can't even believe people are making excuses for Uber like this.
- GrantSolar 9y ago
  In addition to this, the comment you're replying to comes across as dismissive of the issue on the basis of it being common elsewhere. In other words, "TfL are not justified in taking punitive measures against Uber for deliberately failing to report sexual assault because other places also fail to report sexual assault". Needless to say, that sort of apologia is horrific Perhaps I'm reading more into the comment than was intended, perhaps that is the correct amount.
WisNorCan 9y ago
I am not following your defense of Uber. Let’s assume sexual assault is equally common among Uber drivers and regular taxi drivers. It is still not material to the complaint. The complaint is that regulators are getting adequate and timely reporting from regular taxi companies so they can investigate. But not from Uber. This is leading to unnecessary safety issues for Uber riders.
- SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
  I don't read it as a defense, its a necessary prerequisite question to ask to put this situation in its proper context. Every sexual assault is horrific - but what if we look closer and discover that the rate of sexual assaults per ride from Uber is less than that from established cab services? That completely inverts the situation and we would need to ask "What is Uber doing right, and how can the other services emulate their success?" What if we discover they are about the same? Well, then Uber isn't anything exceptional and we have an industry-wide problem that needs addressing at all levels. Either way, we don't even know where the real problem is if we don't start with those kinds of questions.

rorykoehler 9y ago

I don't understand what reality a person lives in where their first response after a crime as serious as sexual assault is to go complain to Uber rather than go directly to the police. That said Uber should have advised the victim to contact the police immediately.

DanBC 9y ago
You don't understand the reality of sexual assault, where many victims don't report to police because of precisely the kind of bullshit dismissal we see in this thread.
- lerie82 9y ago
  Who are you to decide what someone understands? If someone is sexually assaulted and reports it to Uber and not the police, I'd bet money that person is a liar.
  - gr3yh47 9y ago
    >If someone is sexually assaulted and reports it to Uber and not the police, >that person is a liar. non sequitur
    - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
      What is going on with this site? Have these people never used UBER before??? The reason they are reporting it to Uber is because when you get out of the car, you are immediately prompted for a rating and a TIP for the driver! Uber is almost forcing you to report a driver who makes you feel uncomfortable. I'm not saying they shouldn't call the police AFTER. But there is nothing strange about them reporting this instance through Uber's channels.
      - SyneRyder 9y ago
        when you get out of the car, you are immediately prompted for a rating and a TIP for the driver! Uber is almost forcing you to report a driver who makes you feel uncomfortable. Not only that, but if you get out of the car before you reach your destination, Uber displays a large dialog asking if everything is okay and if you need to report a problem. I can't find a screenshot of that exact dialog, but it included some of the options at the bottom of this screenshot (eg I was involved in an accident, My driver was unprofessional.) https://media.consumeraffairs.com/files/reviews/uber_163101.PNG https://media.consumeraffairs.com/files/reviews/uber_163101....

vonnik 9y ago

And even more damning: "In total, Uber had failed to report six sexual assaults, two public order offences and one assault to the police. This had lead to delays of up to 7 months before they were investigated. Particularly damning, with the public order offences this meant that in both cases the prosecution time limit had passed before the police became aware of them."

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

Context: When a local cab driver does anything like this, it is local news implicating a small local company if that. When an uber driver does anything like this, it is international news. I think this should factor in to your risk assessment of using Uber versus any other service.

KekDemaga 9y ago

>If a serious crime (like this one) is suspected, companies have an obligation to report this and not just conduct their own investigations which will have an inherent bias. Why are rape accusations ever investigated outside of a legal context by police? They do the same thing in colleges and it boggles my mind how anyone would think that's a good course of action.