3 ms·

Your last sentence intrigues me. You do know that hyperbole is lies, right? All three of those things exist in America. Let's take Chelsea Manning as an exampl

by KGIII 9y ago

Your last sentence intrigues me. You do know that hyperbole is lies, right? All three of those things exist in America. Let's take Chelsea Manning as an example, shall we? She broke the law and went to jail. Justice was served. Obama commuted her sentence. She was shown mercy. Now she is no longer incarcerated. She has freedom. I could go on for days listing examples, but I need only list the one to counter absolutist statements. There are many honest reasons to complain about America. I'm not sure why you'd go that route.

oldandtired 9y ago
Let's look at the illegal activities of the American government and its organisations that led to the Manning revelations, shall we? Committed a public service for the citizenry of America (irrespective of any "laws" that may have been broken - demonstrated the illegal activities of the government). Justice was not served as the government perpetrators were never sent to prison - this included POTUS. Mercy was only shown as it was politically necessary. You government approves of and participates in the confiscation of money and goods from people who are never charged with any crime. What do they call this - civil forfeiture? When a government breaks its own constitution and laws or makes laws that allow some activity to be legal only for the government but prisonable for the citizenry, then you have a very serious problem. Killing its own citizens, stealing from its own citizens, treating its own citizens as criminals first - these go on for page after page after page. There is no justice, no mercy and no freedom in America today. So it's not hyperbole, it's the reality of what America has become.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  You write: > Responsibility and sacrifice do not have to be associated with conformity and keeping your head down. Nor do they have to be associated with deferring to your betters Interestingly, Manning is a good example of exactly that. Even better would be Snowden, who took extra care to not do any harm to innocent people who could be endangered by the leaks.
- KGIII 9y ago
  So now you've moved the goalposts. You went from no to some. Yes, that is hyperbole. America has faults, plenty of them in fact. But, I gave examples of all three of the things you claimed we had none of. And yes, yes we do have faults. Man, have we got faults. We aren't all bad or in truly dire straights. We do have Nazis marching in the streets but, in the US, they are free to do so - and we are free to counter march. Not only are we free to do so, we have the liberty to do so.
  - meddlepal 9y ago
    Bingo. The point of our system is to protect the rights of the individual over the commons. Disagree with the premise if you want but the system is designed to allow dissent and uncomfortable speech because time and time again governments and people have shown they are incapable of just regulation of these topics.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      I'm sorry for the delayed response but I've been pondering how to reply in a constructive and positive manner. I came up with this: I'm not sure how to accurately relay that to people such as the person I was responding to. For some reason, they have this really biased view of America. Don't get me wrong, America has its faults. However, to say that justice, mercy, and freedom don't exist here? Then, they compound it by saying it's not hyperbole - meaning they really believe that? I wish I were better at communicating. My verbosity indicates my inability. All of those things exist in America - I can see them daily. It's not like I'm a huge nationalist - and I've traveled across the globe. I'm not sure how one gets to be that biased or what information they're using to draw those conclusions. I don't wish them ill, I feel sorry for them. They're obviously being fed propaganda - and they believe it as gospel. They remind me (and this isn't very nice) of a brainwashed cult member. I have no solution, or even a path to find a solution. America has lots and lots of things wrong with it. But the three they listed certainly do exist and, while they could improve, to say there is none of any of them is just a sign that they're consuming some very biased media - or, perhaps, mentally ill. I'd like to think it's harmless, but I see those ideas crop up here and there. It's not frequent, but often enough to where I've noticed it. Ah well... I'll mull it over some more.

by KGIII 9y ago

oldandtired 9y ago

Let's look at the illegal activities of the American government and its organisations that led to the Manning revelations, shall we? Committed a public service for the citizenry of America (irrespective of any "laws" that may have been broken - demonstrated the illegal activities of the government). Justice was not served as the government perpetrators were never sent to prison - this included POTUS. Mercy was only shown as it was politically necessary. You government approves of and participates in the confiscation of money and goods from people who are never charged with any crime. What do they call this - civil forfeiture? When a government breaks its own constitution and laws or makes laws that allow some activity to be legal only for the government but prisonable for the citizenry, then you have a very serious problem. Killing its own citizens, stealing from its own citizens, treating its own citizens as criminals first - these go on for page after page after page. There is no justice, no mercy and no freedom in America today. So it's not hyperbole, it's the reality of what America has become.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
You write: > Responsibility and sacrifice do not have to be associated with conformity and keeping your head down. Nor do they have to be associated with deferring to your betters Interestingly, Manning is a good example of exactly that. Even better would be Snowden, who took extra care to not do any harm to innocent people who could be endangered by the leaks.
KGIII 9y ago
So now you've moved the goalposts. You went from no to some. Yes, that is hyperbole. America has faults, plenty of them in fact. But, I gave examples of all three of the things you claimed we had none of. And yes, yes we do have faults. Man, have we got faults. We aren't all bad or in truly dire straights. We do have Nazis marching in the streets but, in the US, they are free to do so - and we are free to counter march. Not only are we free to do so, we have the liberty to do so.
- meddlepal 9y ago
  Bingo. The point of our system is to protect the rights of the individual over the commons. Disagree with the premise if you want but the system is designed to allow dissent and uncomfortable speech because time and time again governments and people have shown they are incapable of just regulation of these topics.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    I'm sorry for the delayed response but I've been pondering how to reply in a constructive and positive manner. I came up with this: I'm not sure how to accurately relay that to people such as the person I was responding to. For some reason, they have this really biased view of America. Don't get me wrong, America has its faults. However, to say that justice, mercy, and freedom don't exist here? Then, they compound it by saying it's not hyperbole - meaning they really believe that? I wish I were better at communicating. My verbosity indicates my inability. All of those things exist in America - I can see them daily. It's not like I'm a huge nationalist - and I've traveled across the globe. I'm not sure how one gets to be that biased or what information they're using to draw those conclusions. I don't wish them ill, I feel sorry for them. They're obviously being fed propaganda - and they believe it as gospel. They remind me (and this isn't very nice) of a brainwashed cult member. I have no solution, or even a path to find a solution. America has lots and lots of things wrong with it. But the three they listed certainly do exist and, while they could improve, to say there is none of any of them is just a sign that they're consuming some very biased media - or, perhaps, mentally ill. I'd like to think it's harmless, but I see those ideas crop up here and there. It's not frequent, but often enough to where I've noticed it. Ah well... I'll mull it over some more.