4 ms·

> If people in this thread were being honest they'd be well aware that this particularly American flaw isn't so specific to the US. Sure. It's probably a human

> If people in this thread were being honest they'd be well aware that this particularly American flaw isn't so specific to the US. Sure. It's probably a human trait. But I'm not japanese or belgian or german so I wouldn't know. But I'm responding to a comment which "excused" our sins and I'm an american so that's why I made the comment. If it is a human trait, so be it. But the fact that you are pointing to the sins of others kinda proves my point doesn't it?

aaron-lebo 9y ago
I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe". Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans? Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. Any educated American is aware of this stuff. The most voted response is unrelated to the story and only getting upvoted because a lot of people in other countries are disappointed the book isn't about them and their formerely rapacious culture.
- eighthnate 9y ago
  > I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe". Okay. I can see you are passionate about this but you need to calm down. The guy offered his opinion. It wasn't a tirade. > Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans? Sure. And britain was the largest slave trading nation and they were the largest world economy, until the US took over. I don't think anyone is denying that it was the europeans who created the atlantic slave trade. > Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. There is really no need for this. You are better than this. I can see this is getting a bit too heated so I'll just end it here. You are entitled to your opinion and the op is entitled to his. No need to attack people or use vulgur ad hominems.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    Sorry, I just have a real problem with ignorant hatred and prejudice, which this thread is dripping with. Just because they don't use words like dick doesn't mean they aren't using vulgar ad hominems. The mistake is believing that people can distort history but as long as they're being nice about it, it's cool. The US is no more the beneficiary than any other country, so acting like the US is what it is only because of 400 years of loot and plunder (OP's phrasing) is ignoring that the Germans, French, and Russians would have looted and plundered each other and others (and did) for centuries. Therefore, the loot and plunder can't be the sole or even main reason behind American success, which is what the article was talking about. If an African-American was to wander into a thread with similar sentiments about African-Americans, it'd be recognized for the prejudice it is, and ironically most of the posters here would recognize it there, too.
    - Mithaldu 9y ago
      You're forgetting the unique differences in geography and demographics of the USA area compared to what the germans, french and russians had to "work" with.
      - aaron-lebo 9y ago
        What do they matter? How was Russia's treatment of Siberia and the natives there different than NA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia
        Mithaldu 9y ago
        To start with: annual average temperature about 23 °F vs Average temperature: 55.7°F Also, completely different time frame and technology standard. Sibera might have given russia some value, but not remotely on the same scale as north america gave to the USA.
        aaron-lebo 9y ago
- ionised 9y ago
  Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. You are kind of proving his point. He made a valid criticism of the US and its people's tendency to excuse their own bad behaviour, while noting that it is likely a common thing across most nations, and you get really defensive and angry because he had the audacity to do so. That's the American exceptionalism thing we all know and love. You interpret criticism as a smug US hate thread which is fucking ridiculous and only serves to kill any debate.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    No, I'm interpreting "criticism" as smug hate because the criticism isn't really related to the article and isn't even accurate. stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe Exaggerated bullshit. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder Where's the jingoism in that article? The thread was a good excuse to get the hate on. If the OP would like to make accurate and measured claims, then we could have a discussion.
    - ionised 9y ago
      I'm not talking about the article, I'm talking about your overreaction.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      > Where's the jingoism in that article? The thread was a good excuse to get the hate on. If the OP would like to make accurate and measured claims, then we could have a discussion. Ain't that a tad bit thin-skinned? If you consider this "hate" then boy ain't you lucky that you are no German. As a German, the only thing most people know about the country or culture pretty much boils down to "Oh Hitler and you killed millions of Jews!" maybe throw in some "beer/sausage/sauerkraut" for good measure. No nation is perfect, pretty much every nation has some "ugly spots" in their past, the difference being in how nations treat these ugly spots. Imho that is where the US, as a nation, has been failing and keeps on failing because it considers itself so "exceptional" that even morals don't apply and as such it supposedly did never do anything wrong at all. A very one-sided narrative, a view of human history like it's all just a comic book story about the "good guys fighting the bad guys" where the good guys could never do wrong because for them the ends of "beating evil" always justify the means, it's like a "Hollywood reality". This isn't meant as an attack on the country or the people, but merely as an outside observation: The US pretending to be "the good guys", regardless of what kind of methods they use or motivations they have, is one of the reasons why so many people around the world consider the US a nation of hypocrites and the biggest and most dangerous "rogue nation" on this planet. Yes, this also exists in other countries, but no other country has such a global cultural/military reach and influence as the US does, so it sticks out the most and ends up influencing world affairs the most. Again: This is not "hate", it's an observation from an outside-the-US PoV that's merely meant to inform.

aaron-lebo 9y ago

I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe". Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans? Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. Any educated American is aware of this stuff. The most voted response is unrelated to the story and only getting upvoted because a lot of people in other countries are disappointed the book isn't about them and their formerely rapacious culture.

eighthnate 9y ago
> I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe". Okay. I can see you are passionate about this but you need to calm down. The guy offered his opinion. It wasn't a tirade. > Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans? Sure. And britain was the largest slave trading nation and they were the largest world economy, until the US took over. I don't think anyone is denying that it was the europeans who created the atlantic slave trade. > Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. There is really no need for this. You are better than this. I can see this is getting a bit too heated so I'll just end it here. You are entitled to your opinion and the op is entitled to his. No need to attack people or use vulgur ad hominems.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Sorry, I just have a real problem with ignorant hatred and prejudice, which this thread is dripping with. Just because they don't use words like dick doesn't mean they aren't using vulgar ad hominems. The mistake is believing that people can distort history but as long as they're being nice about it, it's cool. The US is no more the beneficiary than any other country, so acting like the US is what it is only because of 400 years of loot and plunder (OP's phrasing) is ignoring that the Germans, French, and Russians would have looted and plundered each other and others (and did) for centuries. Therefore, the loot and plunder can't be the sole or even main reason behind American success, which is what the article was talking about. If an African-American was to wander into a thread with similar sentiments about African-Americans, it'd be recognized for the prejudice it is, and ironically most of the posters here would recognize it there, too.
  - Mithaldu 9y ago
    You're forgetting the unique differences in geography and demographics of the USA area compared to what the germans, french and russians had to "work" with.
    - aaron-lebo 9y ago
      What do they matter? How was Russia's treatment of Siberia and the natives there different than NA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia
      - Mithaldu 9y ago
        To start with: annual average temperature about 23 °F vs Average temperature: 55.7°F Also, completely different time frame and technology standard. Sibera might have given russia some value, but not remotely on the same scale as north america gave to the USA.
        aaron-lebo 9y ago
ionised 9y ago
Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. You are kind of proving his point. He made a valid criticism of the US and its people's tendency to excuse their own bad behaviour, while noting that it is likely a common thing across most nations, and you get really defensive and angry because he had the audacity to do so. That's the American exceptionalism thing we all know and love. You interpret criticism as a smug US hate thread which is fucking ridiculous and only serves to kill any debate.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  No, I'm interpreting "criticism" as smug hate because the criticism isn't really related to the article and isn't even accurate. stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe Exaggerated bullshit. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder Where's the jingoism in that article? The thread was a good excuse to get the hate on. If the OP would like to make accurate and measured claims, then we could have a discussion.
  - ionised 9y ago
    I'm not talking about the article, I'm talking about your overreaction.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    > Where's the jingoism in that article? The thread was a good excuse to get the hate on. If the OP would like to make accurate and measured claims, then we could have a discussion. Ain't that a tad bit thin-skinned? If you consider this "hate" then boy ain't you lucky that you are no German. As a German, the only thing most people know about the country or culture pretty much boils down to "Oh Hitler and you killed millions of Jews!" maybe throw in some "beer/sausage/sauerkraut" for good measure. No nation is perfect, pretty much every nation has some "ugly spots" in their past, the difference being in how nations treat these ugly spots. Imho that is where the US, as a nation, has been failing and keeps on failing because it considers itself so "exceptional" that even morals don't apply and as such it supposedly did never do anything wrong at all. A very one-sided narrative, a view of human history like it's all just a comic book story about the "good guys fighting the bad guys" where the good guys could never do wrong because for them the ends of "beating evil" always justify the means, it's like a "Hollywood reality". This isn't meant as an attack on the country or the people, but merely as an outside observation: The US pretending to be "the good guys", regardless of what kind of methods they use or motivations they have, is one of the reasons why so many people around the world consider the US a nation of hypocrites and the biggest and most dangerous "rogue nation" on this planet. Yes, this also exists in other countries, but no other country has such a global cultural/military reach and influence as the US does, so it sticks out the most and ends up influencing world affairs the most. Again: This is not "hate", it's an observation from an outside-the-US PoV that's merely meant to inform.