6 ms·

news aggregation, and the selective targeting of individuals for advertising might just be the most powerful social influence today. Wins elections even...

moneytalks 9y ago
Yes and that's what's so depressing about it. As engineers, wouldn't it be cool if the most valuable thing we could do was building tools that are inherently valuable instead of valuable because of the tool's ability to connect users with someone who wants to buy their attention? You know, build some software that doesn't make you feel like a pimp.
- fiblye 9y ago
  Your first problem there is monetizing it. If nobody can pay for it, nobody is going to get together to make it.
  - saimiam 9y ago
    I've posted this on HN before but we at Datajoy are trying to solve the problem of consuming without paying which lets ad platforms treat us as the product: https://datajoy.us/fupm.html https://datajoy.us/fupm.html. Use it, block ads, pay for content...sleep better?
  - omphalos 9y ago
    Money isn't the only motivation someone can have. People write lots of open source code for free, for example.
    - astura 9y ago
      A lot of open source work is professional paid work.
      - alexanderstears 9y ago
        And good thing too but not all of it is - in fact, it's a sign of how well developers are treated that they can afford to volunteer their time and expertise for everyone: developers don't need to spend every second of every day on the grind for basic living.
      - omphalos 9y ago
        Yes, and a lot of it isn't, which is what I'm saying :)
  - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
    Maybe we should get rid of capitalism, then. It's obviously not doing the job of allocating resources to beneficial goods or raising productivity.
    - pc86 9y ago
      I was unaware allocation of resources toward "beneficial goods" (to whom?) was every a touted positive effect of capitalism.
      - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
        I was unaware that anyone actually believed deontic moral justifications for an economic system, so I would have thought actual benefits to the population are the only effective anyone's ever touted.
    - mrtesthah 9y ago
      Now you're actually striking at the root of the problem.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      It's important to separate society's tastes, preferences, and incentives with market-based resource allocation. At the very least, corporations and capitalism give us a productive place to put sociopaths (the alternative is religion, healthcare, government, exile/six feet under). And more communal economic systems seem to work well until the anti-social types take over - North Korea was actually better off than South Korea for awhile after the war and the anti-social types always do take over. Capitalism does a really good job of making it easier to do more with less. My phone is a weather station, a flash light, a calculator, a camera, a camcorder, etc. and it's cheaper than most Cameras were just 30 years ago. On the flip side, a lot of the materials that make my phone come out of conflict zones and I'm sure that my phone funded some warlord's attack helicopters and that's not great and it's unfortunate that the 'past of least resistance' involves such unsavory things but the solution rests with more capitalism - the warlord needs to demand a higher price or operate the mines and figure out how to build a phone and go legit.
    - 9y ago
- freshhawk 9y ago
  Sex work is way more honest.
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    And porn and games always lead the way on innovation.
    - popopobobobo 9y ago
      stopped me from innovating though
unityByFreedom 9y ago
I wouldn't give advertising that much credit. An equal amount of money is spent on lost elections too.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- computerphage 9y ago
  > An equal amount of money is spent on lost elections too. That's false. There's a pretty strong correlation between outspending and winning elections. The losing side usually spent less. In aggregate, much more money is spent winning elections than losing them. eg: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/04/think-money-doesnt-matter-in-elections-this-chart-says-youre-wrong/?utm_term=.103c1fdee2de https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/04/th...
  - unityByFreedom 9y ago
    > There's a pretty strong correlation between outspending and winning elections. The losing side usually spent less. In aggregate, much more money is spent winning elections than losing them. A lot of money is wasted on lost elections. I did say "equal", but my point was a lot of advertising dollars fail. Barney Frank: "If the voters have a position, the votes will kick money's rear end any time. I've never met a politician-- I've been in the legislative bodies for 40 years now-- who, choosing between a significant opinion in his or her district and a number of campaign contributors, doesn't go with the district." http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/t...
    - bendoernberg 9y ago
      How does this explain the Republican party's continued support for healthcare bills with sub-25% approval ratings? Also I don't see Barney Frank, Signature Bank board member and author of a piece titled "Yes, I Took Bank Money. And It Made Me a Better Regulator" as a disinterested commentator.

moneytalks 9y ago

Yes and that's what's so depressing about it. As engineers, wouldn't it be cool if the most valuable thing we could do was building tools that are inherently valuable instead of valuable because of the tool's ability to connect users with someone who wants to buy their attention? You know, build some software that doesn't make you feel like a pimp.

fiblye 9y ago
Your first problem there is monetizing it. If nobody can pay for it, nobody is going to get together to make it.
- saimiam 9y ago
  I've posted this on HN before but we at Datajoy are trying to solve the problem of consuming without paying which lets ad platforms treat us as the product: https://datajoy.us/fupm.html https://datajoy.us/fupm.html. Use it, block ads, pay for content...sleep better?
- omphalos 9y ago
  Money isn't the only motivation someone can have. People write lots of open source code for free, for example.
  - astura 9y ago
    A lot of open source work is professional paid work.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      And good thing too but not all of it is - in fact, it's a sign of how well developers are treated that they can afford to volunteer their time and expertise for everyone: developers don't need to spend every second of every day on the grind for basic living.
    - omphalos 9y ago
      Yes, and a lot of it isn't, which is what I'm saying :)
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  Maybe we should get rid of capitalism, then. It's obviously not doing the job of allocating resources to beneficial goods or raising productivity.
  - pc86 9y ago
    I was unaware allocation of resources toward "beneficial goods" (to whom?) was every a touted positive effect of capitalism.
    - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
      I was unaware that anyone actually believed deontic moral justifications for an economic system, so I would have thought actual benefits to the population are the only effective anyone's ever touted.
  - mrtesthah 9y ago
    Now you're actually striking at the root of the problem.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    It's important to separate society's tastes, preferences, and incentives with market-based resource allocation. At the very least, corporations and capitalism give us a productive place to put sociopaths (the alternative is religion, healthcare, government, exile/six feet under). And more communal economic systems seem to work well until the anti-social types take over - North Korea was actually better off than South Korea for awhile after the war and the anti-social types always do take over. Capitalism does a really good job of making it easier to do more with less. My phone is a weather station, a flash light, a calculator, a camera, a camcorder, etc. and it's cheaper than most Cameras were just 30 years ago. On the flip side, a lot of the materials that make my phone come out of conflict zones and I'm sure that my phone funded some warlord's attack helicopters and that's not great and it's unfortunate that the 'past of least resistance' involves such unsavory things but the solution rests with more capitalism - the warlord needs to demand a higher price or operate the mines and figure out how to build a phone and go legit.
  - 9y ago
freshhawk 9y ago
Sex work is way more honest.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  And porn and games always lead the way on innovation.
  - popopobobobo 9y ago
    stopped me from innovating though

unityByFreedom 9y ago

I wouldn't give advertising that much credit. An equal amount of money is spent on lost elections too.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
computerphage 9y ago
> An equal amount of money is spent on lost elections too. That's false. There's a pretty strong correlation between outspending and winning elections. The losing side usually spent less. In aggregate, much more money is spent winning elections than losing them. eg: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/04/think-money-doesnt-matter-in-elections-this-chart-says-youre-wrong/?utm_term=.103c1fdee2de https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/04/th...
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > There's a pretty strong correlation between outspending and winning elections. The losing side usually spent less. In aggregate, much more money is spent winning elections than losing them. A lot of money is wasted on lost elections. I did say "equal", but my point was a lot of advertising dollars fail. Barney Frank: "If the voters have a position, the votes will kick money's rear end any time. I've never met a politician-- I've been in the legislative bodies for 40 years now-- who, choosing between a significant opinion in his or her district and a number of campaign contributors, doesn't go with the district." http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/t...
  - bendoernberg 9y ago
    How does this explain the Republican party's continued support for healthcare bills with sub-25% approval ratings? Also I don't see Barney Frank, Signature Bank board member and author of a piece titled "Yes, I Took Bank Money. And It Made Me a Better Regulator" as a disinterested commentator.