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Like a lot of things, soil infertility is a symptom of a much larger societal problem. Within society, there are many different competing groups that have "the

Like a lot of things, soil infertility is a symptom of a much larger societal problem. Within society, there are many different competing groups that have "the answer". Progressives want a specific list, conservatives want another list, city dwellers want a list (irrespective of being progressive or conservative), country dwellers want another, business owners want their own list, workers want another, government wants a list, law enforcement wants one, radicals want one, etc., stc., etc. All of these lists of wants are at cross purposes. All of it is based on self-interest. Very little of it is based on a wider responsibility for all citizens and the country that supports them. This won't change as people won't give up on their list of wants. The attitude of "us and them" just reinforces the basic problems. Is there a solution? Most certainly. But it requires a change in the basic attitudes of every citizen and most will object to having to face who and what they are. When a society is focus on "rights" instead of responsibilities then the society loses its ability to think in the large. When a government is focussed on it continuation and power it loses sight of its responsibility to build society. There is no short term solution that is a quick fix. In the case of America, it is heading down the path of civil war and devastation because pretty well every level in the American society is in the mindset of "them and us". This is obvious to anyone who opens their eyes. Law enforcement has forgotten that they are there to serve and protect the citizenry and not themselves. Government is self-serving. Corporations are treating their customers as slaves and a resource to control. The general population is focussed on their own little problems of day to day self-gratification.

closeparen 9y ago
I'd even say the absence of a socially constructed responsibility to sacrifice and conform for the sake of tradition and stability are what make us uniquely American, and I'm damn proud of it. Responsibility, sacrifice, conformity, keeping your head down, deferring to your betters on questions of government policy and administration... these features have been dominant in human societies across the globe and over millennia. Maybe because it's the only enduring architecture. Still, I have to admire the American experiment in saying "fuck all that."
- oldandtired 9y ago
  That is interesting that you brought up conforming to something. I didn't. Sacrifice is a mindset of putting others ahead of yourself (this is essential in having a well-formed family) for the greater good of those around you. This attitude of Americans that you are presenting is probably the biggest cause for your downfall. The participants in the formation of your nation (the creators of your constitution) recognised the fact that sacrifice is necessary and that being responsible is essential for the well-being of society. Responsibility and sacrifice do not have to be associated with conformity and keeping your head down. Nor do they have to be associated with deferring to your betters, You have a very poor understanding of what responsibility and sacrifice actually mean if you associate them with the latter characteristics. The American self-image is very much a "holier than thou" mindset and has engendered a response such that any American is to be considered a useless arrogant busy-body who has little or no understanding of anything. Considering that, as a nation, American has a foundation in its constitution that surpasses pretty much every other nation, American falls to the bottom of nations in which justice, mercy and freedom exist. I have dealt with Americans that I have thought very highly of. Unfortunately, these have been the very small minority. The rest have been inattentive, ignorant, bombastic, arrogant know-it-alls who have failed to show any desire to actually be part of the solution. They have acted in every way to be a part of (if not all of) the problem. The inherent problems in American society, the lack of justice, of mercy and of freedom, are a result of this attitude. In many ways, America today is no different to China and Russia or any other tin-pot country around the world. If Americans actually took a serious interest in the American constitution and actively took part in building their society, we might actually find something worthwhile to emulate. American has become a place that many have no interest in ever visiting because it has no justice, no mercy and certainly no freedom.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Your last sentence intrigues me. You do know that hyperbole is lies, right? All three of those things exist in America. Let's take Chelsea Manning as an example, shall we? She broke the law and went to jail. Justice was served. Obama commuted her sentence. She was shown mercy. Now she is no longer incarcerated. She has freedom. I could go on for days listing examples, but I need only list the one to counter absolutist statements. There are many honest reasons to complain about America. I'm not sure why you'd go that route.
AdamCraven 9y ago
You've hit the problem on its head, but the solution is not to try and change people's behaviour on a large scale, but to incentivise based on the self-interest you've mentioned. From the consumers perspective, there is little indication as to the quality of soil something has been grown in. But there must be an effect on the plant itself if it is grown in poor soil in the form of lower macro, trace minerals and other indicators of plant health detectable within the plant. Like the organic standards that cover production methods, we need an opt-in food quality standard. If plants were tested after production for indicators of plant health and labels could be put on vegetables indicating quality. Self-interest of the consumers buying higher quality foods would quickly incentivise farmers into increasing plant quality, which in turn will correct our soil.
- KC8ZKF 9y ago
  Or maybe we could just reduce or eliminate corn subsidies.
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    Where then would we get all the corn we need to dilute our gasoline with?
- oldandtired 9y ago
  I grew up in an area in which the major crop was sugar cane. Some years ago (15 or so), I was talking to my father about the fertility of the soil in the area. He passed onto me a conversation he had had with one of his farmer friends. He was told that the soil was totally infertile and was only there to hold up the cane. All nutrients came from fertiliser that they put into the soil. In this case, the results is sugar which you can't tell how good the plant is. There have been a number of farmers over the years in that area who did crop rotation and field resting. But they were far and few between. In other areas, they are using recycling methods to put organic matter back into their fields. However, this is not common, even though there are groups of farmers who see the benefit of these processes for themselves and the surrounding environment. Part of an education process that we undertake with our young people is for them to understand where food comes from, including when we have the opportunity to teach them gardening (vegetables), animal husbandry and the killing, dressing and butchering of animals for food (sheep and goats). Some take the lessons well, some do not. But they do start to understand where their food comes from. Too many people have no idea of what is needed to produce the food they consume. No idea. Testing foods can be quite simple. The taste of good quality well grown food (meat, vegetables, fruit, milk, eggs, etc.) is quite different to those that are grown in the common farming practices of today. I am currently enjoying eating 7-8 year old mutton and it is better than the best spring lamb that I have had. They ate and they wandered and were not stressed.

closeparen 9y ago

I'd even say the absence of a socially constructed responsibility to sacrifice and conform for the sake of tradition and stability are what make us uniquely American, and I'm damn proud of it. Responsibility, sacrifice, conformity, keeping your head down, deferring to your betters on questions of government policy and administration... these features have been dominant in human societies across the globe and over millennia. Maybe because it's the only enduring architecture. Still, I have to admire the American experiment in saying "fuck all that."

oldandtired 9y ago
That is interesting that you brought up conforming to something. I didn't. Sacrifice is a mindset of putting others ahead of yourself (this is essential in having a well-formed family) for the greater good of those around you. This attitude of Americans that you are presenting is probably the biggest cause for your downfall. The participants in the formation of your nation (the creators of your constitution) recognised the fact that sacrifice is necessary and that being responsible is essential for the well-being of society. Responsibility and sacrifice do not have to be associated with conformity and keeping your head down. Nor do they have to be associated with deferring to your betters, You have a very poor understanding of what responsibility and sacrifice actually mean if you associate them with the latter characteristics. The American self-image is very much a "holier than thou" mindset and has engendered a response such that any American is to be considered a useless arrogant busy-body who has little or no understanding of anything. Considering that, as a nation, American has a foundation in its constitution that surpasses pretty much every other nation, American falls to the bottom of nations in which justice, mercy and freedom exist. I have dealt with Americans that I have thought very highly of. Unfortunately, these have been the very small minority. The rest have been inattentive, ignorant, bombastic, arrogant know-it-alls who have failed to show any desire to actually be part of the solution. They have acted in every way to be a part of (if not all of) the problem. The inherent problems in American society, the lack of justice, of mercy and of freedom, are a result of this attitude. In many ways, America today is no different to China and Russia or any other tin-pot country around the world. If Americans actually took a serious interest in the American constitution and actively took part in building their society, we might actually find something worthwhile to emulate. American has become a place that many have no interest in ever visiting because it has no justice, no mercy and certainly no freedom.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Your last sentence intrigues me. You do know that hyperbole is lies, right? All three of those things exist in America. Let's take Chelsea Manning as an example, shall we? She broke the law and went to jail. Justice was served. Obama commuted her sentence. She was shown mercy. Now she is no longer incarcerated. She has freedom. I could go on for days listing examples, but I need only list the one to counter absolutist statements. There are many honest reasons to complain about America. I'm not sure why you'd go that route.

AdamCraven 9y ago

You've hit the problem on its head, but the solution is not to try and change people's behaviour on a large scale, but to incentivise based on the self-interest you've mentioned. From the consumers perspective, there is little indication as to the quality of soil something has been grown in. But there must be an effect on the plant itself if it is grown in poor soil in the form of lower macro, trace minerals and other indicators of plant health detectable within the plant. Like the organic standards that cover production methods, we need an opt-in food quality standard. If plants were tested after production for indicators of plant health and labels could be put on vegetables indicating quality. Self-interest of the consumers buying higher quality foods would quickly incentivise farmers into increasing plant quality, which in turn will correct our soil.

KC8ZKF 9y ago
Or maybe we could just reduce or eliminate corn subsidies.
- sokoloff 9y ago
  Where then would we get all the corn we need to dilute our gasoline with?
oldandtired 9y ago
I grew up in an area in which the major crop was sugar cane. Some years ago (15 or so), I was talking to my father about the fertility of the soil in the area. He passed onto me a conversation he had had with one of his farmer friends. He was told that the soil was totally infertile and was only there to hold up the cane. All nutrients came from fertiliser that they put into the soil. In this case, the results is sugar which you can't tell how good the plant is. There have been a number of farmers over the years in that area who did crop rotation and field resting. But they were far and few between. In other areas, they are using recycling methods to put organic matter back into their fields. However, this is not common, even though there are groups of farmers who see the benefit of these processes for themselves and the surrounding environment. Part of an education process that we undertake with our young people is for them to understand where food comes from, including when we have the opportunity to teach them gardening (vegetables), animal husbandry and the killing, dressing and butchering of animals for food (sheep and goats). Some take the lessons well, some do not. But they do start to understand where their food comes from. Too many people have no idea of what is needed to produce the food they consume. No idea. Testing foods can be quite simple. The taste of good quality well grown food (meat, vegetables, fruit, milk, eggs, etc.) is quite different to those that are grown in the common farming practices of today. I am currently enjoying eating 7-8 year old mutton and it is better than the best spring lamb that I have had. They ate and they wandered and were not stressed.