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Dooring, while dangerous, is a small percentage of the risk on the roads. The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. If it's

Dooring, while dangerous, is a small percentage of the risk on the roads. The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to pass the cyclist at all. (edit: and, if we're going to do the work to make people realize that they could be safer, make sure you're all the way past the cyclist before you pull in or turn right (left in the UK). Many motorists get their head past the cyclist and neglect the back half of their car, or the trailer they're towing)

microcolonel 9y ago
Do people pass without entering the lane where you live? That's nuts!
- webignition 9y ago
  Drivers passing cyclists too closely is pretty common in the UK. When driving I rarely see other drivers passing cyclists correctly. I always pass a cyclist in the same manner in which I would pass a car but it is easy for me to remember to do so as I also cycle on roads a fair amount. When cycling I intentionally keep far from the curb in situations where I can see that it is not safe for a driver to pass correctly/safely. I try to find places to stop to allow traffic to pass as I also try to keep in mind the needs of all road users. A bit of education in both sides would certainly help. On a positive note, I often notice that when passing a cyclist correctly, the cars immediately behind me also do so. If you are concerned as a driver about the behaviour of other drivers, consider what you can do to reinforce a more safe experience on the roads for all.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    I meant cyclists passing other cyclists without entering the motor lane.
    - ghostly_s 9y ago
      The comment you're responding to was referring to motorists passing cyclists in shared lanes.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    The other day I was behind a cyclist who evidently cycled a lot, as he had on a racing outfit. He was in the bike lane, and the road was 35 mph speed limit, and downhill. Except he'd often ride on the line separating the bike lane from the car lane, and would randomly drift into the car lane and back in the bike lane. Then he decided to draft behind a truck that no way could see he was there. I stayed a couple hundred feet behind this clown until he turned off onto another street. I don't know how he had survived so long (he was middle aged).
    - wiredfool 9y ago
      I don't think we need to get into anecdotes about stupid crap we've seen cars do.
Symbiote 9y ago
The British police have done a few trials this year, where a plain-clothes officer rides a bicycle with a camera, and drivers overtaking with less than a 1.5m gap are stopped by another officer ahead [1]. What really bothers me is "over a 90 minute period in Bournemouth ... issued seven tickets to motorists for using a mobile phone at the wheel, one driver had their vehicle seized for no insurance or licence and another received a fixed penalty notice for not having a valid MOT certificate." When the level of lawbreaking is that high, and irrelevant to the cycling bit, it shouldn't be a 90-minute initiative done with great publicity once a year. [1] https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-information/article/3222 https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-information/article/3222 -- just one example, there are at least 10 results in Google with very similar press releases.
- jimworm 9y ago
  Even if the roads are deemed sufficiently safe not to warrant increased enforcement, it seems that the public purse could benefit from it, at least in the short term.
LambdaComplex 9y ago
> If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to pass the cyclist at all. Cyclists may ride in the center of the lane when they want to force this. > The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. Assuming people actually follow that rule, that is. From my (limited) experience as a cyclist, I think most motorists think they have more of a right to be on the road than bicycles do. This is false from a legal standpoint, but knowing the motorist was technically at fault probably won't make the cyclist feel any better when he's sitting in the hospital after getting hit by a car. See this for more info: http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-driving/ http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-driving/
- TaylorAlexander 9y ago
  I had a friend who hated cyclists and thought “they should get out of the way”. She made no effort to accommodate them on the road. I think improvements to culture can work, but I think laws of this nature have a pretty insignificant effect on the culture.
  - wiredfool 9y ago
    The garda (irish police) will (occasionally) issue a fixed penalty notice (3 pts + ~80eur fine) if you have video evidence of extremely unsafe passes. There's still no 1.5m rule here, but it's supposed to be introduced soon.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    I think they can have an effect on the culture, but they have to be enforced for it to happen.
  - LambdaComplex 9y ago
    Did you ever point out that they legally had just as much right to be on the road as she did?
- wiredfool 9y ago
  Yeah. I'm at 4k cycling miles in the last year. > Cyclists may ride in the center of the lane when they want to force this. And at the same time, you might be surprised at the number of cars that will _still_ try to pass when there's oncoming traffic.
dghughes 9y ago
That rule is new here in my town but it's pointless because the official bike lanes are just a bicycle symbol painted on what used to be the hard shoulder. No separation no barriers no way to keep vehicles and bicyclists separate. The bike lanes are at their widest maybe 1m (~3 feet) and some parts ridiculously narrow maybe 15cm (~6 inches). Imagine if you are in the widest part of a bike lane riding in the middle that means a bicycle and vehicle are according to the bike law already too close. The vehicle can't move to the left into traffic but even so the burden is on the vehicle driver to not get too close to the bike. The bicyclist has no rules and can weave in the lane with impunity. The law has consequences for drivers but none for bicyclists and the poorly "designed" (slapped together) bike lanes make conflicts and charges inevitable. I ride a bike but I also drive a 4x4 that is as wide as the narrow streets in my small town (70,000 people). This law is designed seemingly to say people on bikes never drive vehicles and those who drive vehicles never ride bikes.
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  > The law has consequences for drivers but none for bicyclists and the poorly "designed" (slapped together) bike lanes make conflicts and charges inevitable. Why should there be "consequences" for bicyclists when they are operating in what you fully acknowledge to be infrastructure inadequately designed for their needs? And maybe you should buy a less ridiculous car that is appropriately sized for the streets instead of putting other users in avoidable danger?
  - dghughes 9y ago
    > And maybe you should buy a less ridiculous car that is appropriately sized for the streets instead of putting other users in avoidable danger? Why? You have no idea what I use my vehicle for.

microcolonel 9y ago

Do people pass without entering the lane where you live? That's nuts!

webignition 9y ago
Drivers passing cyclists too closely is pretty common in the UK. When driving I rarely see other drivers passing cyclists correctly. I always pass a cyclist in the same manner in which I would pass a car but it is easy for me to remember to do so as I also cycle on roads a fair amount. When cycling I intentionally keep far from the curb in situations where I can see that it is not safe for a driver to pass correctly/safely. I try to find places to stop to allow traffic to pass as I also try to keep in mind the needs of all road users. A bit of education in both sides would certainly help. On a positive note, I often notice that when passing a cyclist correctly, the cars immediately behind me also do so. If you are concerned as a driver about the behaviour of other drivers, consider what you can do to reinforce a more safe experience on the roads for all.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  I meant cyclists passing other cyclists without entering the motor lane.
  - ghostly_s 9y ago
    The comment you're responding to was referring to motorists passing cyclists in shared lanes.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  The other day I was behind a cyclist who evidently cycled a lot, as he had on a racing outfit. He was in the bike lane, and the road was 35 mph speed limit, and downhill. Except he'd often ride on the line separating the bike lane from the car lane, and would randomly drift into the car lane and back in the bike lane. Then he decided to draft behind a truck that no way could see he was there. I stayed a couple hundred feet behind this clown until he turned off onto another street. I don't know how he had survived so long (he was middle aged).
  - wiredfool 9y ago
    I don't think we need to get into anecdotes about stupid crap we've seen cars do.

Symbiote 9y ago

The British police have done a few trials this year, where a plain-clothes officer rides a bicycle with a camera, and drivers overtaking with less than a 1.5m gap are stopped by another officer ahead [1]. What really bothers me is "over a 90 minute period in Bournemouth ... issued seven tickets to motorists for using a mobile phone at the wheel, one driver had their vehicle seized for no insurance or licence and another received a fixed penalty notice for not having a valid MOT certificate." When the level of lawbreaking is that high, and irrelevant to the cycling bit, it shouldn't be a 90-minute initiative done with great publicity once a year. [1] https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-information/article/3222 https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-information/article/3222 -- just one example, there are at least 10 results in Google with very similar press releases.

jimworm 9y ago
Even if the roads are deemed sufficiently safe not to warrant increased enforcement, it seems that the public purse could benefit from it, at least in the short term.

LambdaComplex 9y ago

> If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to pass the cyclist at all. Cyclists may ride in the center of the lane when they want to force this. > The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. Assuming people actually follow that rule, that is. From my (limited) experience as a cyclist, I think most motorists think they have more of a right to be on the road than bicycles do. This is false from a legal standpoint, but knowing the motorist was technically at fault probably won't make the cyclist feel any better when he's sitting in the hospital after getting hit by a car. See this for more info: http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-driving/ http://cyclingsavvy.org/hows-my-driving/

TaylorAlexander 9y ago
I had a friend who hated cyclists and thought “they should get out of the way”. She made no effort to accommodate them on the road. I think improvements to culture can work, but I think laws of this nature have a pretty insignificant effect on the culture.
- wiredfool 9y ago
  The garda (irish police) will (occasionally) issue a fixed penalty notice (3 pts + ~80eur fine) if you have video evidence of extremely unsafe passes. There's still no 1.5m rule here, but it's supposed to be introduced soon.
- mikeash 9y ago
  I think they can have an effect on the culture, but they have to be enforced for it to happen.
- LambdaComplex 9y ago
  Did you ever point out that they legally had just as much right to be on the road as she did?
wiredfool 9y ago
Yeah. I'm at 4k cycling miles in the last year. > Cyclists may ride in the center of the lane when they want to force this. And at the same time, you might be surprised at the number of cars that will _still_ try to pass when there's oncoming traffic.

dghughes 9y ago

That rule is new here in my town but it's pointless because the official bike lanes are just a bicycle symbol painted on what used to be the hard shoulder. No separation no barriers no way to keep vehicles and bicyclists separate. The bike lanes are at their widest maybe 1m (~3 feet) and some parts ridiculously narrow maybe 15cm (~6 inches). Imagine if you are in the widest part of a bike lane riding in the middle that means a bicycle and vehicle are according to the bike law already too close. The vehicle can't move to the left into traffic but even so the burden is on the vehicle driver to not get too close to the bike. The bicyclist has no rules and can weave in the lane with impunity. The law has consequences for drivers but none for bicyclists and the poorly "designed" (slapped together) bike lanes make conflicts and charges inevitable. I ride a bike but I also drive a 4x4 that is as wide as the narrow streets in my small town (70,000 people). This law is designed seemingly to say people on bikes never drive vehicles and those who drive vehicles never ride bikes.

ghostly_s 9y ago
> The law has consequences for drivers but none for bicyclists and the poorly "designed" (slapped together) bike lanes make conflicts and charges inevitable. Why should there be "consequences" for bicyclists when they are operating in what you fully acknowledge to be infrastructure inadequately designed for their needs? And maybe you should buy a less ridiculous car that is appropriately sized for the streets instead of putting other users in avoidable danger?
- dghughes 9y ago
  > And maybe you should buy a less ridiculous car that is appropriately sized for the streets instead of putting other users in avoidable danger? Why? You have no idea what I use my vehicle for.