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"Deep sleep – the part when we begin to dream" While I'm glad they don't use the popular but incorrect REM sleep == dream sleep, I don't think this is correct

"Deep sleep – the part when we begin to dream" While I'm glad they don't use the popular but incorrect REM sleep == dream sleep, I don't think this is correct either. I have a circadian rhythm disorder and had severe insomnia before that and so have observed the process of getting to sleep in slow motion many times. At least in many cases for me, dreaming preceeds sleep by a bit as gently waundering thoughts gradually turn into dreaming (this might be considered stage 1 sleep on polysomnograph, but certainly not deep sleep). I have a poor visual memory and when I notice visual recall when close to sleep then that is a very good sign that sleep is about to happen. It turns into dreaming a little bit after that and then I fall asleep, although I don't think it always follows this progression (and I don't think I always get visual recall before sleep).

Shikadi 9y ago
I was under the impression that rem was the state when you dream, and you can sometimes enter it before the other stages, can you enlighten me to the truth with a decent source? Thanks =D
- joveian 9y ago
  I think the best article on this is Mark Solms 2000 "Dreaming and REM sleep are controlled by different brain mechanisms"[0]. Solms and a couple of coauthors have an article this year, "Dreaming in Neurological Disorders"[1], which is also great although I don't think it directly answers your question. My sense is that it is still being debated if there are differences in the types of dreams that happen in different stages or not. I couldn't find it last time I looked, but some research somewhat recently found that medically extinguishing REM sleep did not produce a detectable change in dream reports. Other studies seem to show that there may be differences. [0] http://neuro.bstu.by/ai/To-dom/My_research/Papers-2.1-done/Cognitive-S/Consciousness/For-icnnai-2010/2/Ref/download.pdf http://neuro.bstu.by/ai/To-dom/My_research/Papers-2.1-done/C... [1] https://twin.sci-hub.ac/cd77f4d5f6111801eee90b66a3ac13ee/solms2017.pdf https://twin.sci-hub.ac/cd77f4d5f6111801eee90b66a3ac13ee/sol...
  - Shikadi 9y ago
    Awesome material, thanks!
seattleeng 9y ago
It's interesting how you described that process -- I actually distinctly realized around middle school that lingering thoughts led to visualizations and eventually sleep. I got good enough at training myself to close my eyes and start thinking about non-stressors/random thoughts to trigger fast and easy sleep, most of the time. It doesn't really work if there is something significant on my mind, like a work or personal issue.

Shikadi 9y ago

I was under the impression that rem was the state when you dream, and you can sometimes enter it before the other stages, can you enlighten me to the truth with a decent source? Thanks =D

joveian 9y ago
I think the best article on this is Mark Solms 2000 "Dreaming and REM sleep are controlled by different brain mechanisms"[0]. Solms and a couple of coauthors have an article this year, "Dreaming in Neurological Disorders"[1], which is also great although I don't think it directly answers your question. My sense is that it is still being debated if there are differences in the types of dreams that happen in different stages or not. I couldn't find it last time I looked, but some research somewhat recently found that medically extinguishing REM sleep did not produce a detectable change in dream reports. Other studies seem to show that there may be differences. [0] http://neuro.bstu.by/ai/To-dom/My_research/Papers-2.1-done/Cognitive-S/Consciousness/For-icnnai-2010/2/Ref/download.pdf http://neuro.bstu.by/ai/To-dom/My_research/Papers-2.1-done/C... [1] https://twin.sci-hub.ac/cd77f4d5f6111801eee90b66a3ac13ee/solms2017.pdf https://twin.sci-hub.ac/cd77f4d5f6111801eee90b66a3ac13ee/sol...
- Shikadi 9y ago
  Awesome material, thanks!

seattleeng 9y ago

It's interesting how you described that process -- I actually distinctly realized around middle school that lingering thoughts led to visualizations and eventually sleep. I got good enough at training myself to close my eyes and start thinking about non-stressors/random thoughts to trigger fast and easy sleep, most of the time. It doesn't really work if there is something significant on my mind, like a work or personal issue.