5 ms·

Encourage 'Dutch reach' to stop cyclists' car-door deaths

45 points by matthberg 9y ago

microcolonel 9y ago
Seems like a great solution. Unfortunately I don't see it working here in Toronto, the cabbies don't even follow the basic rules of the road, they can't be expected to make a pro-social effort of this sort. It is encouraging that so few deaths have resulted from dooring though. Ever slightly over one per year, not to downplay the seriousness of any loss of life, seems very reasonable.
valuearb 9y ago
Wow, when I rode road bikes, the onus on avoiding suddenly opening car doors was on me. If bike riders won’t pay attention to avoid car doors, expecting drivers to is a fools errand.
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  you can simultaneously encourage defensive biking and encourage drivers to use the dutch reach. not that hard!
- daenney 9y ago
  One does not exclude the other. If both are mindful about this, the chance of something going wrong goes way down. It's not that drivers have sole responsibility in this, it just helps to reduce the amount of injuries if they too adapt their behaviour.
- kutkloon7 9y ago
  Sometimes you just have to bicycle close to cars. Even if you take the effort to see inside parked cars (it is probably better to just watch the road), it is simply impossible to evade suddenly opening car doors if they are opened at just the wrong time. Its a bit like saying that cyclists just have to avoid you if you would suddenly jump on the biking line.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    It is, I would never bike fast bear car doors that could open. I always biked defensively, trusting no one. Isn’t that common sense?
    - icebraining 9y ago
      It's also common sense as a pedestrian to look both ways when crossing a crosswalk. That doesn't mean it's not the driver's legal responsibility to stop. Also, injuries have occurred even at low speeds.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    When I'm on the freeway in the carpool lane which is flowing well, and the rest of the lanes are clogged and moving slowly, I slow down, too, as someone might suddenly pull into the carpool lane from the clogged lane. I have the right of way, but I'd prefer not to rear end anyone with at 50 mph difference in speed. The same when biking past a row of stopped cars. Slow down, as one might open their door. It's just self-preservation. What's the point of being in the right if you're dead?
    - ghostly_s 9y ago
      The point is both parties in these situations should be mindful of the hazard. Yet only one of them is not personally at any significant risk of injury (or, in most of the US at least, prosecution) so is it terribly surprising to find that party is the one that needs the most encouragement? And the difference between your scenarios is that many streets have nowhere for cyclists to ride except in the door zone, and bikes are much less visible to merging drivers/exiting pedestrians than cars, especially when those car users don't have a mindset that expects them. Personally I almost never ride in the door zone, but that's because I'm very aggressive about taking the lane from motorists, which is a skill many cyclists are not comfortable with (and frankly our infrastructure shouldn't require them to be).
      - WalterBright 9y ago
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  As a cyclist you may have less than one second to avoid an opening car door. You can't always give a wide berth because bike lanes in the US are usually very narrow.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    You can have all the time you need, if you slow down.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Do you apply the same logic to intersections? You never know when someone might blow through a red light, so you'd better go through every intersection at 2MPH so you have enough time to stop if they do.
      - valuearb 9y ago
        I do when I’m driving, I slow enough so I can clearly see both ways before I go through.
        enraged_camel 9y ago
        You do realize that unexpected slow downs also result in many accidents, right? The behavior you just described is more risky than the default.
        valuearb 9y ago
        no it’s not, i’m not stopping in intersections. I’m not exceeding the speed limit, I’m going a little less. Fast enough to see oncoming traffic and not to be rear ended.
        mikeash 9y ago
        Going a little less than the speed limit is not nearly enough. If someone stopped at the perpendicular red light suddenly floored it, you wouldn't have enough time to stop. The maximum safe speed through a typical intersection is probably only about 10MPH. Less if there's not much room between the stopped traffic and your lane.
wiredfool 9y ago
Dooring, while dangerous, is a small percentage of the risk on the roads. The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to pass the cyclist at all. (edit: and, if we're going to do the work to make people realize that they could be safer, make sure you're all the way past the cyclist before you pull in or turn right (left in the UK). Many motorists get their head past the cyclist and neglect the back half of their car, or the trailer they're towing)
- microcolonel 9y ago
  Do people pass without entering the lane where you live? That's nuts!
  - webignition 9y ago
    Drivers passing cyclists too closely is pretty common in the UK. When driving I rarely see other drivers passing cyclists correctly. I always pass a cyclist in the same manner in which I would pass a car but it is easy for me to remember to do so as I also cycle on roads a fair amount. When cycling I intentionally keep far from the curb in situations where I can see that it is not safe for a driver to pass correctly/safely. I try to find places to stop to allow traffic to pass as I also try to keep in mind the needs of all road users. A bit of education in both sides would certainly help. On a positive note, I often notice that when passing a cyclist correctly, the cars immediately behind me also do so. If you are concerned as a driver about the behaviour of other drivers, consider what you can do to reinforce a more safe experience on the roads for all.
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      I meant cyclists passing other cyclists without entering the motor lane.
      - ghostly_s 9y ago
        The comment you're responding to was referring to motorists passing cyclists in shared lanes.
nightcracker 9y ago
As a Dutch person the 'Dutch reach' is offensive. No one I know opens doors this way. We don't need some 'trick' to remind ourselves not to be assholes. Just look before you open the door.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  Don't you teach your children to open the door safely? Or people that aren't often in a car? On my first day in Denmark,tThe taxi driver who picked me up at Copenhagen Airport reminded me to look for bikes before I opened the door. The director at my new job here, who drove me home on my first day, told me to open the door this way. So, although I'm not Danish, I doubt calling it the "Danish rearch" would offend any Danes.
  - nightcracker 9y ago
    The key point is that the 'Dutch reach' is supposedly a specific technique (opening the door with the 'wrong' hand) that we teach, which prevents accidents. But in reality this doesn't exist. No one uses it. We all learn to just look, and not through some trick. And we have other reasons (e.g. better street design) so our country is more cyclist friendly, but those are ignored in lieu of some silly trick that doesn't exist and isn't needed.
- breakingcups 9y ago
  I was taught this trick when getting my license. I rarely use it though. Like you say, we prefer to jus pay attention to other road users :) It helps that we have cycling lanes and what not.
- Vinnl 9y ago
  As a Dutch person who doesn't have/need a driver's license, I just learned to look before opening the door. That said, being offended by the name is a rather ridiculous response. (Especially considering the terms we're usually flattered with, such as "going Dutch", a "Dutch oven", etc.)
  - 9y ago
armada651 9y ago
The 'Dutch Reach' isn't universally taught drivers in the Netherlands, I'm Dutch and I've never heard of it before. Though everyone is taught about the dangers of opening your car door without looking. What's keeping cycling deaths low in the Netherlands is simply keeping cyclists off the road and putting them on separate bicycle paths. The article links to an article with this video: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/transport-secretary-chris-grayling-knocks-over-cyclist-as-he-opens-his-car-door-video https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/trans... The traffic situation for cyclists in that video is what we would refer to here as a death trap. It's a busy road with not even a bicycle lane marked on the road. In the Netherlands you would either get off your bike and walk or risk a fine and cycle on the sidewalk.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  In the Netherlands, you wouldn't have converted the once-beautiful "garden" outside your national parliament building into a five-lave gyratory system[1]. Khan has promised to pedestrianize it [2], and that seems more likely to actually happen after the terrorist attack. There were plans to pedestrianize it a decade ago, but Boris Johnstone cancelled them as soon as he became mayor in 2008. [1] https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.5005545,-0.1264029,143m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.5005545,-0.1264029,143m/data=... [2] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-i-ll-make-parliament-sq-for-pedestrians-a3143616.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-i-ll-make-p...
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-removed-to-bring-back-original-water/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-remov...
- analog31 9y ago
  Indeed, I don't think that particular video was a good choice for the article. Too many people will notice that the cyclist who got doored, and the one with the camera, were passing improperly.
hondadriver 9y ago
I am Dutch and learned to open the door this way. But judging the comments of other Dutch people, it seems it is not universally taught. I am puzzled why it would be offensive to call it the Dutch reach. I see it as a compliment.
VeejayRampay 9y ago
Just force car manufacturers to make it so that the door is hard to open unless you're using the opposite hand, it should be easy enough.
blunte 9y ago
I've lived and driven in the Netherlands for five years, and until now I never heard of this. Neither have I observed Dutch drivers doing it. Not saying it isn't true, but...
bastijn 9y ago
This has been in and out of the news the past few years. Each time the Dutch, including me, feel obliged to respond that no dutchy opens his/her doors like that. We have mirrors, we use them. If we have fewer accidents it must be because we have a lot of bicycle lanes and our cyclists (every Dutchy) is a master evader by years of training in what we call large cities. Dutchy out. Drops mic. Cycles away.
afarrell 9y ago
The door handle of the Mini Cooper affords doing the Dutch Reach. It is a circle with a shelf that faces forward in a way that makes it awkward to use the hand nearest the door to open. So, you reach across your body with your other hand and in doing so, you turn your body and head and your peripheral vision can catch a moving cyclist.
JBlue42 9y ago
Won't stick with Angelenos. They'll continue to kick their car doors open w/o a thought as to whether bike or car is barreling down towards them.
devn0ll 9y ago
Even more dangerous to cyclists are the cyclists themselves. At least in Amsterdam there is something called "Amsterdam Red" meaning: red does not neccesarily mean stop to cyclists. When a car/truck is parked on the cycle lane they will happily move to the car lane without looking... Helmets. They are not mandatory, and nobody uses them. So yes, drivers need to look, but cyclists might want to start following rules and best practices as well.

45 points by matthberg 9y ago

Seems like a great solution. Unfortunately I don't see it working here in Toronto, the cabbies don't even follow the basic rules of the road, they can't be expected to make a pro-social effort of this sort. It is encouraging that so few deaths have resulted from dooring though. Ever slightly over one per year, not to downplay the seriousness of any loss of life, seems very reasonable.

valuearb 9y ago

Wow, when I rode road bikes, the onus on avoiding suddenly opening car doors was on me. If bike riders won’t pay attention to avoid car doors, expecting drivers to is a fools errand.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
you can simultaneously encourage defensive biking and encourage drivers to use the dutch reach. not that hard!
daenney 9y ago
One does not exclude the other. If both are mindful about this, the chance of something going wrong goes way down. It's not that drivers have sole responsibility in this, it just helps to reduce the amount of injuries if they too adapt their behaviour.
kutkloon7 9y ago
Sometimes you just have to bicycle close to cars. Even if you take the effort to see inside parked cars (it is probably better to just watch the road), it is simply impossible to evade suddenly opening car doors if they are opened at just the wrong time. Its a bit like saying that cyclists just have to avoid you if you would suddenly jump on the biking line.
- valuearb 9y ago
  It is, I would never bike fast bear car doors that could open. I always biked defensively, trusting no one. Isn’t that common sense?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    It's also common sense as a pedestrian to look both ways when crossing a crosswalk. That doesn't mean it's not the driver's legal responsibility to stop. Also, injuries have occurred even at low speeds.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  When I'm on the freeway in the carpool lane which is flowing well, and the rest of the lanes are clogged and moving slowly, I slow down, too, as someone might suddenly pull into the carpool lane from the clogged lane. I have the right of way, but I'd prefer not to rear end anyone with at 50 mph difference in speed. The same when biking past a row of stopped cars. Slow down, as one might open their door. It's just self-preservation. What's the point of being in the right if you're dead?
  - ghostly_s 9y ago
    The point is both parties in these situations should be mindful of the hazard. Yet only one of them is not personally at any significant risk of injury (or, in most of the US at least, prosecution) so is it terribly surprising to find that party is the one that needs the most encouragement? And the difference between your scenarios is that many streets have nowhere for cyclists to ride except in the door zone, and bikes are much less visible to merging drivers/exiting pedestrians than cars, especially when those car users don't have a mindset that expects them. Personally I almost never ride in the door zone, but that's because I'm very aggressive about taking the lane from motorists, which is a skill many cyclists are not comfortable with (and frankly our infrastructure shouldn't require them to be).
    - WalterBright 9y ago
enraged_camel 9y ago
As a cyclist you may have less than one second to avoid an opening car door. You can't always give a wide berth because bike lanes in the US are usually very narrow.
- valuearb 9y ago
  You can have all the time you need, if you slow down.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Do you apply the same logic to intersections? You never know when someone might blow through a red light, so you'd better go through every intersection at 2MPH so you have enough time to stop if they do.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      I do when I’m driving, I slow enough so I can clearly see both ways before I go through.
      - enraged_camel 9y ago
        You do realize that unexpected slow downs also result in many accidents, right? The behavior you just described is more risky than the default.
        valuearb 9y ago
        no it’s not, i’m not stopping in intersections. I’m not exceeding the speed limit, I’m going a little less. Fast enough to see oncoming traffic and not to be rear ended.
        mikeash 9y ago
        Going a little less than the speed limit is not nearly enough. If someone stopped at the perpendicular red light suddenly floored it, you wouldn't have enough time to stop. The maximum safe speed through a typical intersection is probably only about 10MPH. Less if there's not much room between the stopped traffic and your lane.

wiredfool 9y ago

Dooring, while dangerous, is a small percentage of the risk on the roads. The most effective change would be to have a 3-5 foot (1-1.5m) passing rule. If it's not safe to go into the next lane to pass a cyclist, it's not safe to pass the cyclist at all. (edit: and, if we're going to do the work to make people realize that they could be safer, make sure you're all the way past the cyclist before you pull in or turn right (left in the UK). Many motorists get their head past the cyclist and neglect the back half of their car, or the trailer they're towing)

microcolonel 9y ago
Do people pass without entering the lane where you live? That's nuts!
- webignition 9y ago
  Drivers passing cyclists too closely is pretty common in the UK. When driving I rarely see other drivers passing cyclists correctly. I always pass a cyclist in the same manner in which I would pass a car but it is easy for me to remember to do so as I also cycle on roads a fair amount. When cycling I intentionally keep far from the curb in situations where I can see that it is not safe for a driver to pass correctly/safely. I try to find places to stop to allow traffic to pass as I also try to keep in mind the needs of all road users. A bit of education in both sides would certainly help. On a positive note, I often notice that when passing a cyclist correctly, the cars immediately behind me also do so. If you are concerned as a driver about the behaviour of other drivers, consider what you can do to reinforce a more safe experience on the roads for all.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    I meant cyclists passing other cyclists without entering the motor lane.
    - ghostly_s 9y ago
      The comment you're responding to was referring to motorists passing cyclists in shared lanes.

nightcracker 9y ago

As a Dutch person the 'Dutch reach' is offensive. No one I know opens doors this way. We don't need some 'trick' to remind ourselves not to be assholes. Just look before you open the door.

Symbiote 9y ago
Don't you teach your children to open the door safely? Or people that aren't often in a car? On my first day in Denmark,tThe taxi driver who picked me up at Copenhagen Airport reminded me to look for bikes before I opened the door. The director at my new job here, who drove me home on my first day, told me to open the door this way. So, although I'm not Danish, I doubt calling it the "Danish rearch" would offend any Danes.
- nightcracker 9y ago
  The key point is that the 'Dutch reach' is supposedly a specific technique (opening the door with the 'wrong' hand) that we teach, which prevents accidents. But in reality this doesn't exist. No one uses it. We all learn to just look, and not through some trick. And we have other reasons (e.g. better street design) so our country is more cyclist friendly, but those are ignored in lieu of some silly trick that doesn't exist and isn't needed.
breakingcups 9y ago
I was taught this trick when getting my license. I rarely use it though. Like you say, we prefer to jus pay attention to other road users :) It helps that we have cycling lanes and what not.
Vinnl 9y ago
As a Dutch person who doesn't have/need a driver's license, I just learned to look before opening the door. That said, being offended by the name is a rather ridiculous response. (Especially considering the terms we're usually flattered with, such as "going Dutch", a "Dutch oven", etc.)
- 9y ago

armada651 9y ago

The 'Dutch Reach' isn't universally taught drivers in the Netherlands, I'm Dutch and I've never heard of it before. Though everyone is taught about the dangers of opening your car door without looking. What's keeping cycling deaths low in the Netherlands is simply keeping cyclists off the road and putting them on separate bicycle paths. The article links to an article with this video: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/transport-secretary-chris-grayling-knocks-over-cyclist-as-he-opens-his-car-door-video https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/15/trans... The traffic situation for cyclists in that video is what we would refer to here as a death trap. It's a busy road with not even a bicycle lane marked on the road. In the Netherlands you would either get off your bike and walk or risk a fine and cycle on the sidewalk.

Symbiote 9y ago
In the Netherlands, you wouldn't have converted the once-beautiful "garden" outside your national parliament building into a five-lave gyratory system[1]. Khan has promised to pedestrianize it [2], and that seems more likely to actually happen after the terrorist attack. There were plans to pedestrianize it a decade ago, but Boris Johnstone cancelled them as soon as he became mayor in 2008. [1] https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.5005545,-0.1264029,143m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.dk/maps/@51.5005545,-0.1264029,143m/data=... [2] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-i-ll-make-parliament-sq-for-pedestrians-a3143616.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-i-ll-make-p...
- Vinnl 9y ago
  https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-removed-to-bring-back-original-water/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-remov...
analog31 9y ago
Indeed, I don't think that particular video was a good choice for the article. Too many people will notice that the cyclist who got doored, and the one with the camera, were passing improperly.

hondadriver 9y ago

I am Dutch and learned to open the door this way. But judging the comments of other Dutch people, it seems it is not universally taught. I am puzzled why it would be offensive to call it the Dutch reach. I see it as a compliment.

VeejayRampay 9y ago

Just force car manufacturers to make it so that the door is hard to open unless you're using the opposite hand, it should be easy enough.

blunte 9y ago

I've lived and driven in the Netherlands for five years, and until now I never heard of this. Neither have I observed Dutch drivers doing it. Not saying it isn't true, but...

bastijn 9y ago

This has been in and out of the news the past few years. Each time the Dutch, including me, feel obliged to respond that no dutchy opens his/her doors like that. We have mirrors, we use them. If we have fewer accidents it must be because we have a lot of bicycle lanes and our cyclists (every Dutchy) is a master evader by years of training in what we call large cities. Dutchy out. Drops mic. Cycles away.

afarrell 9y ago

The door handle of the Mini Cooper affords doing the Dutch Reach. It is a circle with a shelf that faces forward in a way that makes it awkward to use the hand nearest the door to open. So, you reach across your body with your other hand and in doing so, you turn your body and head and your peripheral vision can catch a moving cyclist.

JBlue42 9y ago

Won't stick with Angelenos. They'll continue to kick their car doors open w/o a thought as to whether bike or car is barreling down towards them.

devn0ll 9y ago

Even more dangerous to cyclists are the cyclists themselves. At least in Amsterdam there is something called "Amsterdam Red" meaning: red does not neccesarily mean stop to cyclists. When a car/truck is parked on the cycle lane they will happily move to the car lane without looking... Helmets. They are not mandatory, and nobody uses them. So yes, drivers need to look, but cyclists might want to start following rules and best practices as well.