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I think that the sub-contractor culture is causing these problems. You see the major labs are subbed out to the lowest bidder. These are the plant managers. The

I think that the sub-contractor culture is causing these problems. You see the major labs are subbed out to the lowest bidder. These are the plant managers. They are under pressure to produce pits for the countries nuclear arsenal refresh. They have not produced anything for 5 years. Hiring skilled technical engineers like molders and machinists is hard these days as votech died off in alot are areas. Finding a knowledgeable temp is next to impossible. That is essentially what these workers are. Temps. In the old days the labs were run by stoic multinationals like duPont now we have the fly by night bidders like Dyncorp and Fluor running our crown jewels. Race to the bottom if you like. A rather strange process for something so important.

novaleaf 9y ago
Please cite the source that backs up your claim that the workers are (essentially) temps. What you wrote sounds plausible but if the workers actually have secure employment your entire theory falls apart.
- 0xffff2 9y ago
  I don't know the details of LANL or any other nuclear related organizations, but I am a NASA contractor. We have contractors and civil servants working side by side on the same research projects. The primary reason contractors are used at NASA is that their employment is always directly tied to a specific project, and they will be out of a job if that project ends. That isn't the case for a civil servant, who basically has a job for life once hired. We aren't exactly temps, but we are very much at risk of being fired any time budgets are cut or reorganized.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kobeya 9y ago
    I was also a NASA contractor for many years. My employer was the prime contractor but I worked with many subcontractors on my teams as well. Some of them had very stable careers that predated and outlasted mine, since work was available to them whenever they wanted due to their network of personal connections with civil servants. On paper the civil servant was supposed to ask the prime through the contracting officer for a body with a certain skill set and we provided as we see fit, but that’s never how it worked in any reality except on paper. The government employee would always make an informal request, get assurance from the contractor staff about who would be provided, usually someone they had prior experience with or interviewed, and then do the paperwork. When I was interviewed it was by my contractor manager and contractor team, but the civil servant was sitting in the room. I guarantee you he had informal veto authority. As prime you would never risk a customer relationship by doing otherwise — that would be a sure fire way to lose the contract next time around. In budget planning contractors disappear at the end of a project, which is very useful for budget planning purposes. But in most cases it’s not like those contractors are suddenly without a job, except in rare cases like shuttle workers. Rather the agency has fixed and flat budget, so when one winds down a new project starts up. And it is no surprise that in nearly all cases the skill set allocation of new positions roughly equals those going away. And the same people fill those roles, generally. (Again, the shut down of shuttle and forced retirement of many workers is the exception to this.) During my time there was a competitive rebid of the contract had. We won, but during the process the competition approached many of us on the contract individually, letting us know what sort of compensation they would be willing to pay for us to jump ship if they won, to return to the same job wearing a different patch on the sleeve. My civil servant “boss” (air quotes because he wasn’t my manager on the org chart, but in day to day reality he effectively was) pulled me aside to let me know that no matter who won I’d still have a job. It was actually the same thing my employer did when they first won the contract from someone else. I wasn’t there at the time, but many of my coworkers were grandfathered in that way. While what you are saying is correct, it might paint the wrong picture for someone not having our shared experience.
subway 9y ago
Most of the US labs were managed by universities back "in the old days". LANL and LLNL were both originally operated by the University of California, with Bechtel joining the fray when UC was forced to compete for the management contract.

novaleaf 9y ago

Please cite the source that backs up your claim that the workers are (essentially) temps. What you wrote sounds plausible but if the workers actually have secure employment your entire theory falls apart.

0xffff2 9y ago
I don't know the details of LANL or any other nuclear related organizations, but I am a NASA contractor. We have contractors and civil servants working side by side on the same research projects. The primary reason contractors are used at NASA is that their employment is always directly tied to a specific project, and they will be out of a job if that project ends. That isn't the case for a civil servant, who basically has a job for life once hired. We aren't exactly temps, but we are very much at risk of being fired any time budgets are cut or reorganized.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kobeya 9y ago
  I was also a NASA contractor for many years. My employer was the prime contractor but I worked with many subcontractors on my teams as well. Some of them had very stable careers that predated and outlasted mine, since work was available to them whenever they wanted due to their network of personal connections with civil servants. On paper the civil servant was supposed to ask the prime through the contracting officer for a body with a certain skill set and we provided as we see fit, but that’s never how it worked in any reality except on paper. The government employee would always make an informal request, get assurance from the contractor staff about who would be provided, usually someone they had prior experience with or interviewed, and then do the paperwork. When I was interviewed it was by my contractor manager and contractor team, but the civil servant was sitting in the room. I guarantee you he had informal veto authority. As prime you would never risk a customer relationship by doing otherwise — that would be a sure fire way to lose the contract next time around. In budget planning contractors disappear at the end of a project, which is very useful for budget planning purposes. But in most cases it’s not like those contractors are suddenly without a job, except in rare cases like shuttle workers. Rather the agency has fixed and flat budget, so when one winds down a new project starts up. And it is no surprise that in nearly all cases the skill set allocation of new positions roughly equals those going away. And the same people fill those roles, generally. (Again, the shut down of shuttle and forced retirement of many workers is the exception to this.) During my time there was a competitive rebid of the contract had. We won, but during the process the competition approached many of us on the contract individually, letting us know what sort of compensation they would be willing to pay for us to jump ship if they won, to return to the same job wearing a different patch on the sleeve. My civil servant “boss” (air quotes because he wasn’t my manager on the org chart, but in day to day reality he effectively was) pulled me aside to let me know that no matter who won I’d still have a job. It was actually the same thing my employer did when they first won the contract from someone else. I wasn’t there at the time, but many of my coworkers were grandfathered in that way. While what you are saying is correct, it might paint the wrong picture for someone not having our shared experience.

subway 9y ago

Most of the US labs were managed by universities back "in the old days". LANL and LLNL were both originally operated by the University of California, with Bechtel joining the fray when UC was forced to compete for the management contract.