6 ms·

I've been using joe for over 25 years, I just like how easy it is to use.

mschuster91 9y ago
For me, over a decade. It's simply easy and does not pull any confusing tricks like nano with long lines, or vi with... incomprehensible behavior.
- epicide 9y ago
  Everything seems incomprehensible until you comprehend it.
- danellis 9y ago
  My one use for vi is to edit /etc/joe/joerc to enable -nobackups.
  - fpoling 9y ago
    That was one of the reasons I gave up on using Joe for system administration. It showed rather big mismatch between my mental model of how a system editor should work and what Joe did.
    - jhallenworld 9y ago
      We will continue to debate making nobackups the default, but what other behavior is wrong for system administration?
      - fpoling 9y ago
        Scrolling, not wrapping, of lines that do not fit screen.
        Spivak 9y ago
        I would argue that scrolling is the sanest default for systems administration since text files are usually formatted to a fixed width and are sensitive to line breaks.
        fpoling 9y ago
        Yet try to edit with horizontal scrolling XML or JSON file written without line-breaks. Or perhaps some other config files written on assumption that a terminal window will always be maximized and get at least 200 character width. In my opinion an editor for system administration should try to show as much information as possible by default and horizontal scrolling is an opposite of that.
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      Mh. On the one hand, the backup feature has saved my ass more times than I can count, but on the other hand for some software (hello nginx!) and their conf.d directories it can get nasty as well - not cool when you reboot the server and nginx doesn't start because there's a backup file with duplicate directives...
- khedoros1 9y ago
  I was basically forced into using vi (school Solaris box with few editors installed and little space to compile more). A little muscle memory makes basic editing easy, and knowing the connections to "ed" helps things make more sense. Easy stuff takes a small amount of knowledge, but more advanced features make the editor worthwhile for long-term use.
digi_owl 9y ago
Tried joe again recently after using nano, and one of the first gotchas i ran into was that joe asked if i wanted to throw data away. That is the polar opposite of what nano, and i dare say most programs, ask upon exiting with unsaved changes. Edit: Seems that i was still using an older version, and said behavior has changed in more recent versions.
- jhallenworld 9y ago
  Perhaps you used Ctrl-C, which means abort. The message is there to prevent you from accidentally discarding your file. If you use Ctrl-K Q, then it works the way you expect. Notice that it says "Hit Ctrl-K Q to exit or Ctrl-K H for help" when you first start the editor. I added this beginning with version 4.2 for this very reason. Also, if you try "jpico" JOE further emulates nano (pico is nano's predecessor).
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    Ctrl-K Q still produce the "lose changes to file" wording, indicating that a Y answer is backwards from what i would consider the norm these days.
    - jhallenworld 9y ago
      Which version of JOE? It should say "File fred has been modified. Save it (y, n, ^C)?" Maybe you have a .joerc file in your home directory with the old bindings.
      - digi_owl 9y ago
        Hmm, it may be that the repository had an old version. I'll try looking for an update.
    - kzrdude 9y ago
      I know Yes/No remains very usable in a terminal, but seriously, why is there not consensus about the question of verbs vs Yes/No alternatives in dialogs yet? I always thought the verbs were obviously better. Better the quicker you're reading the dialog, and most users don't bother reading it all. To be clear with what I mean: 1. Do you want to save your data before exiting? [Yes] [No] [Cancel] 2. Do you want to save your data before exiting? [Save] [Discard] [Cancel]
cleaver 9y ago
Having cut my teeth on Turbo Pascal 3, I quickly adopted Joe when I started using Linux around 1995. Most of the same key mappings were there. I'm a bit surprised to see it still is around. I eventually switched to vi, since it was reliably available on most systems.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  Precisely why I use Vi(m) today. Maybe it’s not the best, but it seems available on just about everything.

For me, over a decade. It's simply easy and does not pull any confusing tricks like nano with long lines, or vi with... incomprehensible behavior.

epicide 9y ago
Everything seems incomprehensible until you comprehend it.
danellis 9y ago
My one use for vi is to edit /etc/joe/joerc to enable -nobackups.
- fpoling 9y ago
  That was one of the reasons I gave up on using Joe for system administration. It showed rather big mismatch between my mental model of how a system editor should work and what Joe did.
  - jhallenworld 9y ago
    We will continue to debate making nobackups the default, but what other behavior is wrong for system administration?
    - fpoling 9y ago
      Scrolling, not wrapping, of lines that do not fit screen.
      - Spivak 9y ago
        I would argue that scrolling is the sanest default for systems administration since text files are usually formatted to a fixed width and are sensitive to line breaks.
        fpoling 9y ago
        Yet try to edit with horizontal scrolling XML or JSON file written without line-breaks. Or perhaps some other config files written on assumption that a terminal window will always be maximized and get at least 200 character width. In my opinion an editor for system administration should try to show as much information as possible by default and horizontal scrolling is an opposite of that.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    Mh. On the one hand, the backup feature has saved my ass more times than I can count, but on the other hand for some software (hello nginx!) and their conf.d directories it can get nasty as well - not cool when you reboot the server and nginx doesn't start because there's a backup file with duplicate directives...
khedoros1 9y ago
I was basically forced into using vi (school Solaris box with few editors installed and little space to compile more). A little muscle memory makes basic editing easy, and knowing the connections to "ed" helps things make more sense. Easy stuff takes a small amount of knowledge, but more advanced features make the editor worthwhile for long-term use.

digi_owl 9y ago

Tried joe again recently after using nano, and one of the first gotchas i ran into was that joe asked if i wanted to throw data away. That is the polar opposite of what nano, and i dare say most programs, ask upon exiting with unsaved changes. Edit: Seems that i was still using an older version, and said behavior has changed in more recent versions.

jhallenworld 9y ago
Perhaps you used Ctrl-C, which means abort. The message is there to prevent you from accidentally discarding your file. If you use Ctrl-K Q, then it works the way you expect. Notice that it says "Hit Ctrl-K Q to exit or Ctrl-K H for help" when you first start the editor. I added this beginning with version 4.2 for this very reason. Also, if you try "jpico" JOE further emulates nano (pico is nano's predecessor).
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Ctrl-K Q still produce the "lose changes to file" wording, indicating that a Y answer is backwards from what i would consider the norm these days.
  - jhallenworld 9y ago
    Which version of JOE? It should say "File fred has been modified. Save it (y, n, ^C)?" Maybe you have a .joerc file in your home directory with the old bindings.
    - digi_owl 9y ago
      Hmm, it may be that the repository had an old version. I'll try looking for an update.
  - kzrdude 9y ago
    I know Yes/No remains very usable in a terminal, but seriously, why is there not consensus about the question of verbs vs Yes/No alternatives in dialogs yet? I always thought the verbs were obviously better. Better the quicker you're reading the dialog, and most users don't bother reading it all. To be clear with what I mean: 1. Do you want to save your data before exiting? [Yes] [No] [Cancel] 2. Do you want to save your data before exiting? [Save] [Discard] [Cancel]

cleaver 9y ago

Having cut my teeth on Turbo Pascal 3, I quickly adopted Joe when I started using Linux around 1995. Most of the same key mappings were there. I'm a bit surprised to see it still is around. I eventually switched to vi, since it was reliably available on most systems.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
Precisely why I use Vi(m) today. Maybe it’s not the best, but it seems available on just about everything.