8 ms·
First of all, I want to say upfront that I am a Spaniard who, although is against this referendum, is unhappy with how Spain has historically dealt with this is
by charlysl 9y ago
First of all, I want to say upfront that I am a Spaniard who, although is against this referendum, is unhappy with how Spain has historically dealt with this issue, its historical hostility to embracing Catalonia's culture, which is one reason why we have arrived at this juncture.
I would just like to point out what i believe are some of the most misleading statements in the article:
Calling the Guardia Civil a paramilitary force is like calling the carabinieri and gendarmes the same. It is indeed a police force with a military structure. However, it is not at all like the armed force of a violent political party, like, say, the SA.
The constant quoting of the great Orwell is out of context and can be barely justified as an attempt to keep with the missapropriation of the famous book's title. Fortunately, Spain, and Europe, are totally different to what they were like in the 1930s. Spain then was a total mess, with centuries old problems of all sorts coming to a head all at once, in addition to a massive international economic and political crisis, which I accept and understand contributed to Catalonia's drive for independence. It would be like trying to explain Merkel's Germany by quoting from 1930s foreign books about Hitler.
Ok I could go on and on in the same vein ...
Thankfully, as I said, Spain is a very different country now, and although emotions are running high, so far both sides have shown a restraint that would have been unthinkable when Orwell was alive. Something has been learned from history after all.
At the end of the day, this, as is always the case in the real world, is all about power, hearts and minds, propaganda, diplomacy, economy, interests, and, yes, hard power too, although I hope and believe it will not come to that. And the fact is that the spanish state has the upper hand here and just wont let it happen, too much to lose. The independence movement's only hope is to gather a so far lacking foreign support, which is what has allowed other weaker regions to achieve independence. But in those cases, on top of more or less plausible reasons for independence, (ex-Yugoslavia, South Sudan, East Timor, etc) there were attrocities and general mistreatment under comtemporary, not historical, dictatorships that, lets be honest, thankfully, is nowhere to be seen in the matter at hand.
Just one historical note: in the 15th century the kingdom of Aragon, which included Catalonia, was desperate to avoid a French invasion and so came to an agreement with Castile, which is the origin of modern Spain. Do you really believe that the alternative for Catalonia would have been independence? It actually lost a chunk to France anyway, north of the natural border, the Pyrenees, the Cerdagne and Rousillon. Ok but now is now, I know, and, of course, there is much more than this. Nobody cares about real history anyway unless it suits their agenda. This holds for both sides of course.
The referendum is just not the way. For better or worse, the spanish public opinion, unlike the english one (UK would have lost one of its poorest regions, Spain its richest, much more at stake), just isn't ready for this. And even if there was one, and the independentists lost, come on, they would just call a new one every 2 years until they could claim 50.1%. Who would elaborate the census? Who would organize it? What would happen afterwards? This is a very important unresolved issue that the Guardian rightly mentions when it says that the current coalition in Catalonia is a ragtag mix that can only agree on one thing.
It is also important to realize that time is also on the spanish side. The statu quo, although far from ideal, is much more palatable to them. There is none of the emergency of the separatists, who smell a historical opportunity in the wake of the mismanaged financial crisis. Nothing new here btw if we remember that this movement was energized in the aftermath of the huge spanish crisis of 1898, when the bulk of lingering overseas colonies was lost (and where the discontent catalonian burgoise had many business interests).
I hope that both leaderships realize that their traditional approach will only keep leading to a deadlock and that they will finally try to find a compromise acceptable for all. I am not holding my breath though. Compromise is not a Spanish word (and compromis has a different meaning).
- tankenmate 9y agoIf the Catalans follow the lead of Gandhi they won't need foreign support. If I was a Catalan independence supporter I would advocate for people to pay the pro rata portion of their taxes that would be allocated to the Catalan region directly to the Catalan government (if they are in exile or not). If 40% of Catalans did this, income tax, VAT, etc, then this matter would come to a head within one year. The EU would have to concede or then sanction violence. They can't afford to lock up 40% of the population and they can't afford to lose the revenue. Obviously the money would need to be sent to a repository that was outside of Madrid's or Brussels's reach. CatCoin anyone? Cryptocurrencies might be the modern equivalent of Gandhi's Salt March; remove the state's monopoly control of commerce.
- charlysl 9y agoThe thing is, and I believe this is key, the relationship is not a colonial one at all, of submission to an alien foreign power. And there is no way the democratic spanish government would react like the colonial british one. Nor would the spanish people tolerate such a heavy handed approach, I dont think there is hatred, just bewilderement. That was also part of a wider process, that of decolonitation. What is going on here isn't anything like that, I think Gandhi's strategy worked partially because of the historical context.
- tankenmate 9y agoMy view obviously is different, I view it as a matter of self determination. To me whether it is a matter of colonialisation is largely immaterial. The reason Gandhi's method works is because it leaves only two options, kill the complainants or acquiesce. Authority comes from submission, if someone does not submit to you then you have no authority over them; your only choice then is to either kill them or let them be. So if a sizeable percentage of Catalans come to the point of willing to risk everything to no longer submit to Madrid then Madrid will have only two options. Whether Brussels would allow the first of those two options is rather obvious. As with the vast majority of things in this life, the most committed wins.
- Oletros 9y ago