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The Geeks vs Suit narrative feels totally bogus to me these days. Both are equally trapped in a consumer culture that they can't escape. The senseless consumpt

by moe4 9y ago

The Geeks vs Suit narrative feels totally bogus to me these days. Both are equally trapped in a consumer culture that they can't escape. The senseless consumption machine assimilates everyone. Until iPhone 86 and Star Wars 123 can't get made cause there are no resources left, Geeks and Suit will continue to serve the machine.

3131s 9y ago
Absolutely. I could live off the average Hacker News user's annual salary for like 15 years. Even if I still lived in the US I would work one or two years, spend 10k / year on living expenses (I have done it before) and take the remainder of my salary to a country with low cost of living and live exactly as I do now -- no car or moto, no big house or fancy apartment, no phone, etc. Is all that stuff really worth years and years of total freedom? I wouldn't change anything about how I live now even if I were a millionaire.
- saimiam 9y ago
  Do you blog about your experiences anywhere? I'd like to read more. (Totally serious request in case it comes off as otherwise.)
  - 3131s 9y ago
    I have thought about it before but haven't ever. I am happy to give you a few more details though. I am able to spend so little because I live in a very central area of Phnom Penh, Cambodia. My apartment is a spacious 80$ / month concrete box, around 5m x 16m with tall ceilings, natural ventilation, and a balcony facing out into a long alley. Around 100m away is one of the largest markets in the city, and so there is tons and tons of cheap, healthy food in walking distance (e.g. a kilo of mangoes for 0.25$ when in season). The really notable aspect of living here is the sheer population density -- I've estimated that in a 100m radius around me, in dense rows of five story apartments [1], there are probably over 5000 people living together relatively harmoniously. Being somewhat of a shut-in, this is really great for me as every day I see and chat with many neighbors, local vendors, and other familiar faces. I also live within walking distance of the absolutely awesome Olympic Stadium [2] and go there most days to sprint and lift weights with the Cambodian national track team (choosing cheap or free hobbies is pretty key to this lifestyle I suppose). Most everything else that I love doing involves computers, so other than a few laptops, speakers, a guitar, a nice table and chair, a mattress on the floor, etc. I don't really own much. That's not to say there are not difficult moments here. Even though I personally am not struggling financially, it's hard to totally escape the effects of poverty when you are immersed in it. A few years back, for example, a teenage boy killed himself in this neighborhood by jumping from a 5th story balcony, and knowing the backstory I don't think he would have done it if he had the money to escape from his home life. Seeing other people struggle is tough, but of course not nearly as tough as being in that situation yourself. [1] http://68.media.tumblr.com/23e3cc103960ec568bdc1a0086e71901/tumblr_ms9t8gMXjn1sglye1o1_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/23e3cc103960ec568bdc1a0086e71901/... (a view looking out from the balcony of my first apartment here) [2] http://68.media.tumblr.com/8aa2bce1ccc7a248a3e2e74a3ef6b57b/tumblr_ms84g6u8e11sglye1o4_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/8aa2bce1ccc7a248a3e2e74a3ef6b57b/... (this is from 4 years ago, days after I arrived, now there is a new field and track!)
    - saimiam 9y ago
      How do you deal with any sense of emotional distance from the people around you? If you make a good living but the people around you don't, at some level, you must find yourself unable to identify with their struggles and happinesses.
      - 3131s 9y ago
        That's a good question. When I first moved here, like a lot of Westerners I imagined that I would not really be able to relate to many poorer Khmer people because of how enormously different our backgrounds are. While it is true that most older and some younger Khmer people have a story of unimaginable hardship, I would say that a lot of Westerners here (especially those that never actually meet Khmer people or learn the language) have this tendency to think of local people in a way that is too focused on their plight, to the point that it prevents them from recognizing their mutual commonality. It's also important to note that even in my relatively poorer neighborhood, most people are not desperately struggling like you might see in charity advertisements and that sort of thing (but probably do lack a safety net). So while I am extremely sympathetic to and cognizant of how hard many Khmer people work for their living, most of what I see day to day is happy families and people laughing and doing things that are just very normal, for lack of a better word. It's something that I always want to remain aware of, but at the same time it's not what I want to be focused on all the time when I am meeting people. I hope that makes sense. To put it another way, I can't identify with their struggle but regarding happiness, I feel that once our basic needs are met that we're all pretty much the same. I guess that's why I don't feel an emotional distance between myself and the people I meet here, most of the time. I also feel really, really compelled to use the skills that I have to make some money in a reasonably ethical way and more or less give it away to the many friends and acquaintances I have here.
        saimiam 9y ago
        Did the realization that once basic needs are met, we all have a lot in common take a while to come? Did you try to fit your Cambodian neighbors into a narrative that you recognized before accepting them as they are? Sorry for such personal questions. I just returned to India from the US and at some level, I feel I'm trying to live a US lifestyle in India.
- reducesuffering 9y ago
  I too would like to read about this.
  - 3131s 9y ago
    See above. I think I will start blogging about this, if only because Cambodia is changing fast and there are many aspects of living here that I don't want to forget as time passes. Thanks for the interest! But I must say that usually how I live doesn't feel outstanding at all, because I am surrounded by thousands and thousands of people who get by on much less and without the same safety net that I have.
chrissnell 9y ago
I agree, but only because the geeks were dragged into this consumerist Internet culture. There was a period of transition, in the late 90's/early 2000s. I remember feeling very resentful for a few years when I saw people with no geek creds but with MBAs, going on to start companies that were extremely successful. My feeling at the time was that this was our playground and it used to be awesome before you fuckers showed up. Fast forward almost 20 years and I make a really nice living off of an Internet-enabled business but I still long for my geek beginnings and strive to keep it alive however I can. In my spare time, I run a couple of forums in the automotive industry. One of my forums is the oldest and most popular forum [1] for its particular marquee but unlike virtually all of its competitors, my forum does not run any advertising, nor does it accept donations. It's completely free. A throw-back to the days when geeks built cool shit because it was fun and there was respect for people who built cool shit for the sake of building it. [1] https://discoweb.org/ https://discoweb.org/
- RandomInteger4 9y ago
  I clicked on your forum link half expecting a ye olde marquee and blink tags.
dingaling 9y ago
> Until iPhone 86 and Star Wars 123 can't get made cause there are no resources left, Geeks and Suit will continue to serve the machine. Serve the machine, or control the machine? If Star Wars Episode 123 was released straight to DVD with no advertising, no cover-art, no previews, no tie-in toys... would the demand exist?

by moe4 9y ago

3131s 9y ago

Absolutely. I could live off the average Hacker News user's annual salary for like 15 years. Even if I still lived in the US I would work one or two years, spend 10k / year on living expenses (I have done it before) and take the remainder of my salary to a country with low cost of living and live exactly as I do now -- no car or moto, no big house or fancy apartment, no phone, etc. Is all that stuff really worth years and years of total freedom? I wouldn't change anything about how I live now even if I were a millionaire.

saimiam 9y ago
Do you blog about your experiences anywhere? I'd like to read more. (Totally serious request in case it comes off as otherwise.)
- 3131s 9y ago
  I have thought about it before but haven't ever. I am happy to give you a few more details though. I am able to spend so little because I live in a very central area of Phnom Penh, Cambodia. My apartment is a spacious 80$ / month concrete box, around 5m x 16m with tall ceilings, natural ventilation, and a balcony facing out into a long alley. Around 100m away is one of the largest markets in the city, and so there is tons and tons of cheap, healthy food in walking distance (e.g. a kilo of mangoes for 0.25$ when in season). The really notable aspect of living here is the sheer population density -- I've estimated that in a 100m radius around me, in dense rows of five story apartments [1], there are probably over 5000 people living together relatively harmoniously. Being somewhat of a shut-in, this is really great for me as every day I see and chat with many neighbors, local vendors, and other familiar faces. I also live within walking distance of the absolutely awesome Olympic Stadium [2] and go there most days to sprint and lift weights with the Cambodian national track team (choosing cheap or free hobbies is pretty key to this lifestyle I suppose). Most everything else that I love doing involves computers, so other than a few laptops, speakers, a guitar, a nice table and chair, a mattress on the floor, etc. I don't really own much. That's not to say there are not difficult moments here. Even though I personally am not struggling financially, it's hard to totally escape the effects of poverty when you are immersed in it. A few years back, for example, a teenage boy killed himself in this neighborhood by jumping from a 5th story balcony, and knowing the backstory I don't think he would have done it if he had the money to escape from his home life. Seeing other people struggle is tough, but of course not nearly as tough as being in that situation yourself. [1] http://68.media.tumblr.com/23e3cc103960ec568bdc1a0086e71901/tumblr_ms9t8gMXjn1sglye1o1_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/23e3cc103960ec568bdc1a0086e71901/... (a view looking out from the balcony of my first apartment here) [2] http://68.media.tumblr.com/8aa2bce1ccc7a248a3e2e74a3ef6b57b/tumblr_ms84g6u8e11sglye1o4_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/8aa2bce1ccc7a248a3e2e74a3ef6b57b/... (this is from 4 years ago, days after I arrived, now there is a new field and track!)
  - saimiam 9y ago
    How do you deal with any sense of emotional distance from the people around you? If you make a good living but the people around you don't, at some level, you must find yourself unable to identify with their struggles and happinesses.
    - 3131s 9y ago
      That's a good question. When I first moved here, like a lot of Westerners I imagined that I would not really be able to relate to many poorer Khmer people because of how enormously different our backgrounds are. While it is true that most older and some younger Khmer people have a story of unimaginable hardship, I would say that a lot of Westerners here (especially those that never actually meet Khmer people or learn the language) have this tendency to think of local people in a way that is too focused on their plight, to the point that it prevents them from recognizing their mutual commonality. It's also important to note that even in my relatively poorer neighborhood, most people are not desperately struggling like you might see in charity advertisements and that sort of thing (but probably do lack a safety net). So while I am extremely sympathetic to and cognizant of how hard many Khmer people work for their living, most of what I see day to day is happy families and people laughing and doing things that are just very normal, for lack of a better word. It's something that I always want to remain aware of, but at the same time it's not what I want to be focused on all the time when I am meeting people. I hope that makes sense. To put it another way, I can't identify with their struggle but regarding happiness, I feel that once our basic needs are met that we're all pretty much the same. I guess that's why I don't feel an emotional distance between myself and the people I meet here, most of the time. I also feel really, really compelled to use the skills that I have to make some money in a reasonably ethical way and more or less give it away to the many friends and acquaintances I have here.
      - saimiam 9y ago
        Did the realization that once basic needs are met, we all have a lot in common take a while to come? Did you try to fit your Cambodian neighbors into a narrative that you recognized before accepting them as they are? Sorry for such personal questions. I just returned to India from the US and at some level, I feel I'm trying to live a US lifestyle in India.
reducesuffering 9y ago
I too would like to read about this.
- 3131s 9y ago
  See above. I think I will start blogging about this, if only because Cambodia is changing fast and there are many aspects of living here that I don't want to forget as time passes. Thanks for the interest! But I must say that usually how I live doesn't feel outstanding at all, because I am surrounded by thousands and thousands of people who get by on much less and without the same safety net that I have.

chrissnell 9y ago

I agree, but only because the geeks were dragged into this consumerist Internet culture. There was a period of transition, in the late 90's/early 2000s. I remember feeling very resentful for a few years when I saw people with no geek creds but with MBAs, going on to start companies that were extremely successful. My feeling at the time was that this was our playground and it used to be awesome before you fuckers showed up. Fast forward almost 20 years and I make a really nice living off of an Internet-enabled business but I still long for my geek beginnings and strive to keep it alive however I can. In my spare time, I run a couple of forums in the automotive industry. One of my forums is the oldest and most popular forum [1] for its particular marquee but unlike virtually all of its competitors, my forum does not run any advertising, nor does it accept donations. It's completely free. A throw-back to the days when geeks built cool shit because it was fun and there was respect for people who built cool shit for the sake of building it. [1] https://discoweb.org/ https://discoweb.org/

RandomInteger4 9y ago
I clicked on your forum link half expecting a ye olde marquee and blink tags.

dingaling 9y ago

> Until iPhone 86 and Star Wars 123 can't get made cause there are no resources left, Geeks and Suit will continue to serve the machine. Serve the machine, or control the machine? If Star Wars Episode 123 was released straight to DVD with no advertising, no cover-art, no previews, no tie-in toys... would the demand exist?