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Slowly but surely we will realize that we are hitting a wall, and that no matter how far we push, or how much we incentivize, things will not change. The whole

Slowly but surely we will realize that we are hitting a wall, and that no matter how far we push, or how much we incentivize, things will not change. The whole gender equality movement (and I do want to isolate this from all other identity movements) will eventually have to face the reality of women's choice, and what they choose perhaps will not be a satisfactory answer/direction the proponents of this ideology wish to see. Norwegian countries are by far more "advanced" in their implementation and encouragement of "gender equality" at the work place, but they've eventually have had to come to terms with certain facts that betrays the whole "gender equality" narrative. You can't force women to choose. Not to mention why isn't there a push for more women working trade jobs like construction, plumbing, underwater wielding, etc. that in itself betrays the entire "gender equality" narrative. There's a Norwegian documentary exploring this subject called "The Gender Equality Paradox" https://vimeo.com/19707588 https://vimeo.com/19707588. It's a good documentary and suggest people view it.

reuleaux 9y ago
"Not to mention why isn't there a push for more women working trade jobs like construction, plumbing, underwater wielding, etc. that in itself betrays the entire "gender equality" narrative." This same comment is made every single time there's a discussion of gender equality in tech, and when examined betrays the entire "anti gender equality" narrative. People are in fact pushing for women in every single one of the fields you mentioned: Construction: http://www.nawic.org/nawic/NFSFScholarships.asp http://www.nawic.org/nawic/NFSFScholarships.asp Plumbing: https://www.aspe.org/WOA https://www.aspe.org/WOA Welding: https://app.aws.org/foundation/scholarships/air_products https://app.aws.org/foundation/scholarships/air_products The next point that's brought up is "well then why aren't people pushing for more men in female dominated industries." To which the answer is, they are, and have been for a long time: http://www.aamn.org/about-us/scholarships http://www.aamn.org/about-us/scholarships It seems fishy to me when people are willing to speak out against diversity in tech without bothering to research any part of their argument.
- thevardanian 9y ago
  That wasn't even the point of my whole argument. All I'm saying is that perhaps women don't want those jobs in the first place. Then what will you do? I mean that is the whole assumption of this argument right? That women want these jobs, but are unable to participate in them because of discrimination. What if that assumption is wrong? You can push for diversity all you want, but what if that's just not how people behave? Again watch the documentary I think Norwegian society is a far better a case study for Gender issues than anywhere else on the planet.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    No, that was never an assumption of the argument.
    - thevardanian 9y ago
      That clearly is the assumption of the argument. That women don't have enough opportunities and thus are underrepresented in the work force. Whether that opportunity refers to discrimination, encouragement, etc. is irrelevant to what I'm saying. What if women are underrepresented because they simply don't want the jobs?
      - greglindahl 9y ago
        In a society where women are not treated equally, you're dodging the real issue to argue about something that's not relevant.
        thevardanian 9y ago
        .... what women want isn't relevant?
        greglindahl 9y ago
        Vigorously arguing about "what women want" in the face of today's known discrimination against women in tech is not relevant. Not to mention misrepresenting what "the argument" is about, but I guess you've already moved on from that.
rektide 9y ago
The culture surrounding the job has enormous impact on who signs up. It's not inherent that tech jobs have to be like they are, but finding a better path could take a long long time. It's IMO scum and villainy willing to chalk it up to gender imbalance while not considering that it might take large scale sociological change, perhaps over decades of time, to gradually make our system better. Trying to be gender fair is only a small part of building healthy, good workspaces- there's many other systematic evils that need rooting out, and I'm not sure why that's not apparent & considered before making these kinds of gross discarding remarks.
- thevardanian 9y ago
  Again Norwegian countries have attempted to do this far more than the USA. Have they succeeded?

reuleaux 9y ago

"Not to mention why isn't there a push for more women working trade jobs like construction, plumbing, underwater wielding, etc. that in itself betrays the entire "gender equality" narrative." This same comment is made every single time there's a discussion of gender equality in tech, and when examined betrays the entire "anti gender equality" narrative. People are in fact pushing for women in every single one of the fields you mentioned: Construction: http://www.nawic.org/nawic/NFSFScholarships.asp http://www.nawic.org/nawic/NFSFScholarships.asp Plumbing: https://www.aspe.org/WOA https://www.aspe.org/WOA Welding: https://app.aws.org/foundation/scholarships/air_products https://app.aws.org/foundation/scholarships/air_products The next point that's brought up is "well then why aren't people pushing for more men in female dominated industries." To which the answer is, they are, and have been for a long time: http://www.aamn.org/about-us/scholarships http://www.aamn.org/about-us/scholarships It seems fishy to me when people are willing to speak out against diversity in tech without bothering to research any part of their argument.

thevardanian 9y ago
That wasn't even the point of my whole argument. All I'm saying is that perhaps women don't want those jobs in the first place. Then what will you do? I mean that is the whole assumption of this argument right? That women want these jobs, but are unable to participate in them because of discrimination. What if that assumption is wrong? You can push for diversity all you want, but what if that's just not how people behave? Again watch the documentary I think Norwegian society is a far better a case study for Gender issues than anywhere else on the planet.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  No, that was never an assumption of the argument.
  - thevardanian 9y ago
    That clearly is the assumption of the argument. That women don't have enough opportunities and thus are underrepresented in the work force. Whether that opportunity refers to discrimination, encouragement, etc. is irrelevant to what I'm saying. What if women are underrepresented because they simply don't want the jobs?
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      In a society where women are not treated equally, you're dodging the real issue to argue about something that's not relevant.
      - thevardanian 9y ago
        .... what women want isn't relevant?
        greglindahl 9y ago
        Vigorously arguing about "what women want" in the face of today's known discrimination against women in tech is not relevant. Not to mention misrepresenting what "the argument" is about, but I guess you've already moved on from that.

rektide 9y ago

The culture surrounding the job has enormous impact on who signs up. It's not inherent that tech jobs have to be like they are, but finding a better path could take a long long time. It's IMO scum and villainy willing to chalk it up to gender imbalance while not considering that it might take large scale sociological change, perhaps over decades of time, to gradually make our system better. Trying to be gender fair is only a small part of building healthy, good workspaces- there's many other systematic evils that need rooting out, and I'm not sure why that's not apparent & considered before making these kinds of gross discarding remarks.

thevardanian 9y ago
Again Norwegian countries have attempted to do this far more than the USA. Have they succeeded?