5 ms·

Or we just avoid this whole mess and go universal healthcare and stop treating health as a luxury.

RandVal30142 9y ago
But that would massacre the thousands of middlemen companies making a profit off the inefficiencies of this current govt-subsidizies-private-industry system.
leifaffles 9y ago
Or we just avoid this whole mess and create a free market in health care.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  I'd like to see people that advocate for this do it in a straightforward way and start by advocating for the repeal of EMTALA. It doesn't make any sense to legally require stabilizing care and then do nothing to get people to participate on the pay side.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    It really is telling that there is essentially zero advocacy for repealing EMTALA.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Unfortunately that doesn’t fix the mess of sick people dying of easily treated diseases because they don’t have enough money.
  - leifaffles 9y ago
    Do you have any examples? Which people, which diseases, and who denied them care?
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Google “death due to lack of health insurance” for numerous examples. If you want some specific ones here, consider a diabetic who can’t afford insulin, or someone with cancer who can’t pay for treatment. If we’re talking about a true free market where ERs can turn people away, then it could be something simple like having a heart attack while you’re out and forgot your insurance card at home, or being mugged, beaten, and left for dead.
      - dawnerd 9y ago
        Exactly. Free market would turn it into care only for the wealthy while the poor die at home.
        mikeash 9y ago
        Even the wealthy should worry about such a world, since you never know when you might end up in the ER with no papers.
      - leifaffles 9y ago
        I did. "death due to lack of health insurance" 4 results. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I think it is important to ground this broader discussion in actual specifics. I keep hearing all these insane stories of people dying on the streets, which simply doesn't reflect anybody's lived experience. Of course that's not to say there aren't significant real problems, but the discussion is so hyperbolic and far from reality that it's almost not worth having. This problem underlies both the "universal health care" and the free market absolutists. They're both selling different versions of utopia, which don't exist.
        mikeash 9y ago
        You kept the quotes on the search phrase and ignored everything else I wrote? You’re not arguing in good faith here.
        9y ago

But that would massacre the thousands of middlemen companies making a profit off the inefficiencies of this current govt-subsidizies-private-industry system.

leifaffles 9y ago

Or we just avoid this whole mess and create a free market in health care.

maxerickson 9y ago
I'd like to see people that advocate for this do it in a straightforward way and start by advocating for the repeal of EMTALA. It doesn't make any sense to legally require stabilizing care and then do nothing to get people to participate on the pay side.
- mikeash 9y ago
  It really is telling that there is essentially zero advocacy for repealing EMTALA.
mikeash 9y ago
Unfortunately that doesn’t fix the mess of sick people dying of easily treated diseases because they don’t have enough money.
- leifaffles 9y ago
  Do you have any examples? Which people, which diseases, and who denied them care?
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Google “death due to lack of health insurance” for numerous examples. If you want some specific ones here, consider a diabetic who can’t afford insulin, or someone with cancer who can’t pay for treatment. If we’re talking about a true free market where ERs can turn people away, then it could be something simple like having a heart attack while you’re out and forgot your insurance card at home, or being mugged, beaten, and left for dead.
    - dawnerd 9y ago
      Exactly. Free market would turn it into care only for the wealthy while the poor die at home.
      - mikeash 9y ago
        Even the wealthy should worry about such a world, since you never know when you might end up in the ER with no papers.
    - leifaffles 9y ago
      I did. "death due to lack of health insurance" 4 results. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I think it is important to ground this broader discussion in actual specifics. I keep hearing all these insane stories of people dying on the streets, which simply doesn't reflect anybody's lived experience. Of course that's not to say there aren't significant real problems, but the discussion is so hyperbolic and far from reality that it's almost not worth having. This problem underlies both the "universal health care" and the free market absolutists. They're both selling different versions of utopia, which don't exist.
      - mikeash 9y ago
        You kept the quotes on the search phrase and ignored everything else I wrote? You’re not arguing in good faith here.
        9y ago