7 ms·

> In the behavioural analysis, cyclists at the stop line glared at the signal, almost willing it to turn green. This is amazing. I have never seen a cyclist wa

by lg 9y ago

> In the behavioural analysis, cyclists at the stop line glared at the signal, almost willing it to turn green. This is amazing. I have never seen a cyclist waiting at a red light. I think you need this kind of culture among cyclists before you can do something like taking away lights. I have never been hit by a car, but I have twice been hit by cyclists either ignoring stop lights when I had right of way, or ignoring bike lane markers and veering into pedestrian walkways. This was in Boston and NYC.

rocqua 9y ago
Here in Groningen (the Netherlands) I'd say 90% of people wait at a traffic light. Thing is, here cycling isn't something done by risk-takers. We have 80 year-olds cycling to the grocery store. That leads to a whole different group mentality than looking at those willing to cycle in NYC. Heck, I'd be hesitant to cycle in NYC.
- asddddd 9y ago
  Another difference (most likely) is that it's quite common for US traffic lights to switch only when they detect traffic on one of the roads, and this rarely works with bicycles. Nothing like sitting at a red for 2 minutes before realizing you have to either run it or go on the sidewalk. Maybe not so common on the East Coast, but 4-way stops are another can of worms here. Most drivers expect you'll ignore the stop sign and will yield for you. Some will refuse to go even after you're at a complete stop and got there after them, at which point it's a standoff. Doing a rolling stop (Idaho stop - illegal most places) ends up being the safest option most of the time.
  - analog31 9y ago
    In my state, there's a "dead red" exception, where a cyclist can pass through a red light under certain conditions.
  - rsfern 9y ago
    Usually you can trigger the electromagnetic sensor if you ride over the edge of it; there's usually a visible seam in the pavement. You want to ride along the edge of the loop.
    - lotsofpulp 9y ago
      I’ve never seen a detector like that. All the ones I’ve seen are mounted next to the traffic light and aim down towards where a car would be waiting.
      - bspn 9y ago
        They're very common where I live, but to the best of my knowledge they're weight-based so I'm not sure a cyclist would trigger it.
        Mindless2112 9y ago
        Usually it's a loop of wire embedded in the pavement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_loop#Vehicle_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_loop#Vehicle_detecti...
        c22 9y ago
        When I rode a moped I would never trigger these things till I started rolling around with a large magnet zip tied to the bottom of my ride.
        int_19h 9y ago
        Hereabouts (Western WA), some cities have actually started painting the location of the sensor, specifically for cyclists. Here's an intersection in Redmond where you can see those. https://goo.gl/maps/TRmyGzWZDAQ2 https://goo.gl/maps/TRmyGzWZDAQ2
      - CodeWriter23 9y ago
        Around certain cities in the LA area, the striping crew paints a stencil of a cyclist and an arrow pointing forward over the sensor.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rahkiin 9y ago
    In the netherlands, bike lanes have buttons at the traffic lights much like the pedestrian buttons. We also have sensors and you can see if they worked with lights in the button.
analog31 9y ago
In my view, what you're describing is a culture among cyclists, that is local to a few cities. For instance, cyclists riding like jerks would be a noticeable exception in my locale. And there are other cultural differences between NYC / Boston, and my locale. For instance, I don't need a high security lock to leave a cheap bike outdoors for a few minutes </s>
enraged_camel 9y ago
I'm a cyclist and my behavior changes greatly depending on where I am and the time of day. Riding through busy parts of town during the weekday? Hell yeah I stop at red lights just like everyone else. 7 AM on Sunday morning in a quiet suburban neighborhood? I'll probably look in either direction when approaching an intersection and cross without stopping if there are no cars or pedestrians around, even if my light is red. I'll still slow down a bit though, instinctively. Basically my rule of thumb is this: obey all traffic signs as if you're a car if sharing the road with motorists, cyclists or pedestrians. Otherwise though, you can ignore the signs.
- analog31 9y ago
  I wonder what would happen if all of the cyclists in NYC were to declare a week of staying in the vehicle lanes and obeying every law. By skirting congestion and clearing out of intersections, cyclists may be doing the rest of us a favor. I remember when they adopted the 55 mph speed limit. Some truck drivers in Michigan decided to protest it by obeying it. The resulting congestion was pretty painful for everybody.
  - dogruck 9y ago
    That's a great story about the truck drivers "protesting by obeying the 55 mph speed limit."
  - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
    In SF, along a popular bicycle route called "The Wiggle", exactly this happened, and traffic ground to a halt. https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-what-happened-when-bicyclists-obeyed-traffic-laws-along-the-wiggle-yesterday https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-w...
  - u801e 9y ago
    > I remember when they adopted the 55 mph speed limit. Some truck drivers in Michigan decided to protest it by obeying it. The resulting congestion was pretty painful for everybody. Some people actually did this on an interstate near Atlanta, Georgia a number of years ago and posted it on Youtube [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ
dogruck 9y ago
I've personally received 2 NYPD citations for running a red light on a CitiBike. The good news is that I now stop at red lights when I ride in NYC. The funny part is that, several times, pedestrians have reacted with shock and glee, saying things like "wow, I've never seen a rider stop at a red light!"
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  I wonder if the cops can view the position of CitiBikes on their phone in real time.
  - dogruck 9y ago
    I don't think CitiBikes have any location tracking. I think they only phone home at the docks.
    - CodeWriter23 9y ago
      I would think discussing the logistics of recovering the bikes would be an early discussion for such a project. Sooner or later someone is going to jack someone’s phone and steal a bike. And that advertising display device on the Citibike’s handlebars looks like an easy way to implement a GPS/cellular tracking system.
Theodores 9y ago
I cycle and yes a few red lights get passed. Generally I stop but that is not a golden rule. I also do a little bit of dog walking and have to cross the road with my sister's dog. Like yourself I was of the opinion that only cyclists jump lights, however, those same lights that I normally stop for (or perhaps not!), get routinely jumped by cars. I don't normally notice this when on the bike, but when waiting to cross with the dog I am surprised at how it is these motorists that do the light jumping. They also tail-gate each other through the lights after they have gone red at considerable speed. If they hit anyone then that would be a proper accident. Ultimately it is human nature to want to jump lights and how educated someone is.
anigbrowl 9y ago
American cyclists seem to feel so threatened by cars that they repeat a lot of the same unwanted behaviors they complain about. Maybe it's bad driver's ed, maybe it's the fact that there's no effort to teach cyclists the rules of the road in the US at an early age. Of course bicycling as an everyday transport is pretty common in europe, whereas cyclists make up a much smaller proportion of road users in the US.
dom0 9y ago
Haha, here in Germany people will call you out for crossing a pedestrian red light.
criddell 9y ago
I'm in Austin and ride my bike to work whenever I can. I stop at all lights and stop signs. When I see other riders along the way, they are doing the same. I moved here from Portland, OR and lots of cyclists there were way more aggressive.
II2II 9y ago
That must be a regional thing. I have seen the odd cyclist run a red at T-intersections or go through a red after stopping at intersections controlled by sensors, otherwise compliance is near 100%.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

by lg 9y ago

rocqua 9y ago

Here in Groningen (the Netherlands) I'd say 90% of people wait at a traffic light. Thing is, here cycling isn't something done by risk-takers. We have 80 year-olds cycling to the grocery store. That leads to a whole different group mentality than looking at those willing to cycle in NYC. Heck, I'd be hesitant to cycle in NYC.

asddddd 9y ago
Another difference (most likely) is that it's quite common for US traffic lights to switch only when they detect traffic on one of the roads, and this rarely works with bicycles. Nothing like sitting at a red for 2 minutes before realizing you have to either run it or go on the sidewalk. Maybe not so common on the East Coast, but 4-way stops are another can of worms here. Most drivers expect you'll ignore the stop sign and will yield for you. Some will refuse to go even after you're at a complete stop and got there after them, at which point it's a standoff. Doing a rolling stop (Idaho stop - illegal most places) ends up being the safest option most of the time.
- analog31 9y ago
  In my state, there's a "dead red" exception, where a cyclist can pass through a red light under certain conditions.
- rsfern 9y ago
  Usually you can trigger the electromagnetic sensor if you ride over the edge of it; there's usually a visible seam in the pavement. You want to ride along the edge of the loop.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    I’ve never seen a detector like that. All the ones I’ve seen are mounted next to the traffic light and aim down towards where a car would be waiting.
    - bspn 9y ago
      They're very common where I live, but to the best of my knowledge they're weight-based so I'm not sure a cyclist would trigger it.
      - Mindless2112 9y ago
        Usually it's a loop of wire embedded in the pavement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_loop#Vehicle_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_loop#Vehicle_detecti...
        c22 9y ago
        When I rode a moped I would never trigger these things till I started rolling around with a large magnet zip tied to the bottom of my ride.
      - int_19h 9y ago
        Hereabouts (Western WA), some cities have actually started painting the location of the sensor, specifically for cyclists. Here's an intersection in Redmond where you can see those. https://goo.gl/maps/TRmyGzWZDAQ2 https://goo.gl/maps/TRmyGzWZDAQ2
    - CodeWriter23 9y ago
      Around certain cities in the LA area, the striping crew paints a stencil of a cyclist and an arrow pointing forward over the sensor.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- rahkiin 9y ago
  In the netherlands, bike lanes have buttons at the traffic lights much like the pedestrian buttons. We also have sensors and you can see if they worked with lights in the button.

analog31 9y ago

In my view, what you're describing is a culture among cyclists, that is local to a few cities. For instance, cyclists riding like jerks would be a noticeable exception in my locale. And there are other cultural differences between NYC / Boston, and my locale. For instance, I don't need a high security lock to leave a cheap bike outdoors for a few minutes </s>

enraged_camel 9y ago

I'm a cyclist and my behavior changes greatly depending on where I am and the time of day. Riding through busy parts of town during the weekday? Hell yeah I stop at red lights just like everyone else. 7 AM on Sunday morning in a quiet suburban neighborhood? I'll probably look in either direction when approaching an intersection and cross without stopping if there are no cars or pedestrians around, even if my light is red. I'll still slow down a bit though, instinctively. Basically my rule of thumb is this: obey all traffic signs as if you're a car if sharing the road with motorists, cyclists or pedestrians. Otherwise though, you can ignore the signs.

analog31 9y ago
I wonder what would happen if all of the cyclists in NYC were to declare a week of staying in the vehicle lanes and obeying every law. By skirting congestion and clearing out of intersections, cyclists may be doing the rest of us a favor. I remember when they adopted the 55 mph speed limit. Some truck drivers in Michigan decided to protest it by obeying it. The resulting congestion was pretty painful for everybody.
- dogruck 9y ago
  That's a great story about the truck drivers "protesting by obeying the 55 mph speed limit."
- Karrot_Kream 9y ago
  In SF, along a popular bicycle route called "The Wiggle", exactly this happened, and traffic ground to a halt. https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-what-happened-when-bicyclists-obeyed-traffic-laws-along-the-wiggle-yesterday https://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-w...
- u801e 9y ago
  > I remember when they adopted the 55 mph speed limit. Some truck drivers in Michigan decided to protest it by obeying it. The resulting congestion was pretty painful for everybody. Some people actually did this on an interstate near Atlanta, Georgia a number of years ago and posted it on Youtube [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ

dogruck 9y ago

I've personally received 2 NYPD citations for running a red light on a CitiBike. The good news is that I now stop at red lights when I ride in NYC. The funny part is that, several times, pedestrians have reacted with shock and glee, saying things like "wow, I've never seen a rider stop at a red light!"

CodeWriter23 9y ago
I wonder if the cops can view the position of CitiBikes on their phone in real time.
- dogruck 9y ago
  I don't think CitiBikes have any location tracking. I think they only phone home at the docks.
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    I would think discussing the logistics of recovering the bikes would be an early discussion for such a project. Sooner or later someone is going to jack someone’s phone and steal a bike. And that advertising display device on the Citibike’s handlebars looks like an easy way to implement a GPS/cellular tracking system.

Theodores 9y ago

I cycle and yes a few red lights get passed. Generally I stop but that is not a golden rule. I also do a little bit of dog walking and have to cross the road with my sister's dog. Like yourself I was of the opinion that only cyclists jump lights, however, those same lights that I normally stop for (or perhaps not!), get routinely jumped by cars. I don't normally notice this when on the bike, but when waiting to cross with the dog I am surprised at how it is these motorists that do the light jumping. They also tail-gate each other through the lights after they have gone red at considerable speed. If they hit anyone then that would be a proper accident. Ultimately it is human nature to want to jump lights and how educated someone is.

anigbrowl 9y ago

American cyclists seem to feel so threatened by cars that they repeat a lot of the same unwanted behaviors they complain about. Maybe it's bad driver's ed, maybe it's the fact that there's no effort to teach cyclists the rules of the road in the US at an early age. Of course bicycling as an everyday transport is pretty common in europe, whereas cyclists make up a much smaller proportion of road users in the US.

dom0 9y ago

Haha, here in Germany people will call you out for crossing a pedestrian red light.

criddell 9y ago

I'm in Austin and ride my bike to work whenever I can. I stop at all lights and stop signs. When I see other riders along the way, they are doing the same. I moved here from Portland, OR and lots of cyclists there were way more aggressive.

II2II 9y ago

That must be a regional thing. I have seen the odd cyclist run a red at T-intersections or go through a red after stopping at intersections controlled by sensors, otherwise compliance is near 100%.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]