3 ms·

We've all got anecdotes, so here's mine. I was asked for ID each time I wanted to modify my AT&T account with a rep, and as such I produced one in the form of d

by z2 9y ago

We've all got anecdotes, so here's mine. I was asked for ID each time I wanted to modify my AT&T account with a rep, and as such I produced one in the form of driver's license. At a major city hotel late at night, I produced my ID to a security guard who otherwise would not let me in with just my room key. At an airport security check, being over 18, I produced a government-approved ID to board the flight. Maybe there are ways around all this, just like how in China, I bought a monthly subscription (not just pre-paid) China Unicom SIM at an official outlet using cash with no ID, and took many train and bus rides with just a ticket in hand.

gwright 9y ago
Proving identity to an AT&T rep or a hotel security guard in order to validate authorization to access your account or room is not the same thing as the government demanding your identity in order to go from place to place. Yes, they both involve proving your identity but that is where the similarity ends.
kurthr 9y ago
I don't know when you did this, but you can't buy a ticket on a train (not subway) in China without providing identification in any city someone would recognize (Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Xiamen, Chongqing, etc.). As a foreigner, if you exit any of those cities in a car, you must notify the authorities (which is a pain when the Factory is just outside... but the manufacturer will let you know before they let you stay). This has been largely true for the last 10 years. The same is true for any bus that crosses provincial boundaries. That includes every major Chinese train station (excluding HK/TW) in every city most people can name. If someone else bought you a ticket, they put a fake (probably western) ID on it or they did a favor of using your ID without telling you (that's why they ask for your Passport#). Even the standard electronic purchase stalls only print out a ticket if you provide a China ID, or in a small number of cases a Passport. Everywhere else you have to stand in line to provide ID to the ticketing agent. All patrons of a hotel must provide an ID (even if you are a non-paying guest) to check in. If it is a foreign ID, they must photocopy it and provide it to the authorities (including your visa information). If you stay at an AirBnB, you must check in at the local Police Station with your Passport/Visa. Not doing so is a crime punishable by imprisonment and revocation of your visa!
kelnos 9y ago
That isn't the same thing, and your anecdotes don't really mean anything; the parent's anecdotes act as a counterexample, which is all that is necessary to prove that ID isn't necessary, even if it's generally or often used. AT&T is requiring you to show ID as a security measure, not because the US gov't requires it. You're talking about them using your ID for authentication, to protect you from someone impersonating you to make unwanted changes to your account. This does not preclude you from being able to walk into an AT&T (or T-Mobile) store and get an activated SIM card with cash and without showing ID. Ditto for the hotel security guard check. If they had required your ID at check-in for any purpose other than authenticating you against their reservation record, then that would be a problem. If you could walk into the hotel without a reservation and pay for a room with cash without flashing ID, then the parent's point stands. (And even if you couldn't, this may just be a particular hotel's policy, which is fine. The point being made is that the government is not requiring this. There are plenty of hotels in the US that are perfectly happy with anonymous money.) As for flights, there's definitely more government involved with ID'ing you, but you can absolutely fly without ID. You just need to go through extra security screening, which is a pain, but works just fine. My experience in China is over a decade old, so I won't comment on that.
mullen 9y ago
> We've all got anecdotes, so here's mine. I was asked for ID each time I wanted to modify my AT&T account with a rep, and as such I produced one in the form of driver's license. This is a security precaution to edit your account. It's a good thing and this is also not part of a condition of setting up the account. > At a major city hotel late at night, I produced my ID to a security guard who otherwise would not let me in with just my room key. Same thing as above. You have to show ID as part of security for the Hotel and it is not required by law. > At an airport security check, being over 18, I produced a government-approved ID to board the flight. You don't have to produce ID to fly. Again, this has been shown time and time again.

by z2 9y ago

gwright 9y ago

Proving identity to an AT&T rep or a hotel security guard in order to validate authorization to access your account or room is not the same thing as the government demanding your identity in order to go from place to place. Yes, they both involve proving your identity but that is where the similarity ends.

kurthr 9y ago

I don't know when you did this, but you can't buy a ticket on a train (not subway) in China without providing identification in any city someone would recognize (Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Xiamen, Chongqing, etc.). As a foreigner, if you exit any of those cities in a car, you must notify the authorities (which is a pain when the Factory is just outside... but the manufacturer will let you know before they let you stay). This has been largely true for the last 10 years. The same is true for any bus that crosses provincial boundaries. That includes every major Chinese train station (excluding HK/TW) in every city most people can name. If someone else bought you a ticket, they put a fake (probably western) ID on it or they did a favor of using your ID without telling you (that's why they ask for your Passport#). Even the standard electronic purchase stalls only print out a ticket if you provide a China ID, or in a small number of cases a Passport. Everywhere else you have to stand in line to provide ID to the ticketing agent. All patrons of a hotel must provide an ID (even if you are a non-paying guest) to check in. If it is a foreign ID, they must photocopy it and provide it to the authorities (including your visa information). If you stay at an AirBnB, you must check in at the local Police Station with your Passport/Visa. Not doing so is a crime punishable by imprisonment and revocation of your visa!

kelnos 9y ago

That isn't the same thing, and your anecdotes don't really mean anything; the parent's anecdotes act as a counterexample, which is all that is necessary to prove that ID isn't necessary, even if it's generally or often used. AT&T is requiring you to show ID as a security measure, not because the US gov't requires it. You're talking about them using your ID for authentication, to protect you from someone impersonating you to make unwanted changes to your account. This does not preclude you from being able to walk into an AT&T (or T-Mobile) store and get an activated SIM card with cash and without showing ID. Ditto for the hotel security guard check. If they had required your ID at check-in for any purpose other than authenticating you against their reservation record, then that would be a problem. If you could walk into the hotel without a reservation and pay for a room with cash without flashing ID, then the parent's point stands. (And even if you couldn't, this may just be a particular hotel's policy, which is fine. The point being made is that the government is not requiring this. There are plenty of hotels in the US that are perfectly happy with anonymous money.) As for flights, there's definitely more government involved with ID'ing you, but you can absolutely fly without ID. You just need to go through extra security screening, which is a pain, but works just fine. My experience in China is over a decade old, so I won't comment on that.

mullen 9y ago

> We've all got anecdotes, so here's mine. I was asked for ID each time I wanted to modify my AT&T account with a rep, and as such I produced one in the form of driver's license. This is a security precaution to edit your account. It's a good thing and this is also not part of a condition of setting up the account. > At a major city hotel late at night, I produced my ID to a security guard who otherwise would not let me in with just my room key. Same thing as above. You have to show ID as part of security for the Hotel and it is not required by law. > At an airport security check, being over 18, I produced a government-approved ID to board the flight. You don't have to produce ID to fly. Again, this has been shown time and time again.