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That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (

That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework. Interesting times indeed.

flamedoge 9y ago
perhaps making a big deal out of it on mainstream media made it less unexpected? Odds are, it was a data-driven (shift in hype/marketshare) decision.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
MikeHolman 9y ago
>Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. Really? They are doing the minimum possible to prevent an exodus from their stack after a public outcry.
- pier25 9y ago
  React is pretty popular already. FB only really needs to change the license to keep the growth.
  - pknopf 9y ago
    Exactly. React would have been fine, but to say the big players jumping ship didn't matter is just wrong.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  There was no sign of an exodus. That’s ludicrously hyperbolic.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Not at all. There was an exodus brewing. For starters: https://ma.tt/2017/09/on-react-and-wordpress/ https://ma.tt/2017/09/on-react-and-wordpress/ https://hacks.hyperspacer.com/app/items/15256532 https://hacks.hyperspacer.com/app/items/15256532
    - ng12 9y ago
      An HN thread with a dozen responses? Hardly an exodus.
      - davidgerard 9y ago
        A quarter of all websites? An exodus.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        Rapzid 9y ago
        Those websites weren't leaving, they never arrived..
        marksomnian 9y ago
        They were close to arriving but they backtracked, all 25% of them. I'd call that an exodus before you even arrive.
        kahnpro 9y ago
        You can't die if you were never alive to begin with
        orf 9y ago
        And yet a project can die before it's born
- CorySimmons 9y ago
  This. FB is intentionally leaving a ton of their ecosystem with the PATENTS virus. Theorizing, but I suspect FB will begin targeting and picking off IP of apps built entirely on React stacks in a few years. Please don't go back to them. Just contribute to Vue's ecosystem like crazy. Worst case scenario it'll keep FB in check.
  - peterhunt 9y ago
    When has this ever happened?
- ojr 9y ago
  there was no exodus, React is the number one javascript framework in the job market in Boston and probably other tech hubs too
dentemple 9y ago
>I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework Competing frameworks will now need a new "Reason #1 to use us instead" for their pitch-decks.
irrational 9y ago
Yeah, we've already settled on Vue (because our lawyers forbade us from using React), but now I'm sure they would approve React. So... do we abandon our work on Vue (which so far is amazing) to switch to React since the React ecosystem is so large, or do we stay the course? Sigh. I wish Facebook had made this change a year ago.
- LibertyBeta 9y ago
  I would stay with Vue. While the react world is bugger it's mostly made up of competing solutions instead of distinct tasks. That said, this healthy Vue/Angular/React competition has been great for us devs.
  - swyx 9y ago
    "great" is relative to how much free time you have evaluating all the various alternatives and finding the bugs/missing use cases nobody cares to tell you about up front..
    - epicide 9y ago
      > the bugs/missing use cases nobody cares to tell you about In the case of fewer frameworks, you would still have these. Arguably more due to lack of competition. > evaluating all the various alternatives Pick one of the "Big 3" above. You'll be fine. Largely due to the previous point.
  - nathan_f77 9y ago
    I agree that competition is generally good, but I hate choices so much. I don't even care if Vue is 10 times better than React, I've just spent the last year diving into React and React Native. I've finished 3 big projects and now I'm feeling more confident. And now I get the feeling that I have to throw out a whole bunch of experience and switch to the next big thing. I think I'm going to dig in my heels this time. React is fine. It's more than fine, I absolutely love working with React, Redux, redux-saga, redux-observable, and a whole bunch of other libraries and patterns that I've finally begun to master after over a year of headaches and frustration. I'm not going to switch to Vue, not even for my next side project. I didn't personally care about the BSD+Patents license, but you definitely have to keep your eyes and ears open with backlash like this. Even if I think it's a total issue, it might affect my ability to hire employees or even sell my company. So I'm really glad that React is now released under the MIT license.
AnkhMorporkian 9y ago
I... well, I kinda expected it. Facebook wanted their products to be used, but it was obviously their legal department that made them put the patent clause in. The more people who develop using their libraries, the more contributions they get back, and the more benefit they get from it. I almost guarantee you none of the devs wanted that weird-ass patent clause in there, but I'm guessing that none of them thought that it was a big deal in the long run, just CYA shit you'd expect from a legal department. They were proven wrong, and it impacted their market share, they raised a stink about it and they got it changed.
nebabyte 9y ago
> I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework What do you expect them to do, shrug and come back? I doubt anyone who left based on concerns with their stack being owned by Facebook is likely to regret weaning themselves off of it.
- nilliams 9y ago
  The react ecosystem is massive, and includes impressive projects like the various backends/renderers: react-native, react-sketch.app, react-vr, react-pdf, ink, that have no equivalent in other frameworks (or at least to nowhere near the same level of maturity), so yeah people ditching it may well regret it.
tomascot 9y ago
As I see it this shows that you can't trust Facebook. And that Mark still is the same dude that once said "They trust me. Dumb fucks".

flamedoge 9y ago

perhaps making a big deal out of it on mainstream media made it less unexpected? Odds are, it was a data-driven (shift in hype/marketshare) decision.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

MikeHolman 9y ago

>Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. Really? They are doing the minimum possible to prevent an exodus from their stack after a public outcry.

pier25 9y ago
React is pretty popular already. FB only really needs to change the license to keep the growth.
- pknopf 9y ago
  Exactly. React would have been fine, but to say the big players jumping ship didn't matter is just wrong.
matthewmacleod 9y ago
There was no sign of an exodus. That’s ludicrously hyperbolic.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Not at all. There was an exodus brewing. For starters: https://ma.tt/2017/09/on-react-and-wordpress/ https://ma.tt/2017/09/on-react-and-wordpress/ https://hacks.hyperspacer.com/app/items/15256532 https://hacks.hyperspacer.com/app/items/15256532
  - ng12 9y ago
    An HN thread with a dozen responses? Hardly an exodus.
    - davidgerard 9y ago
      A quarter of all websites? An exodus.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rapzid 9y ago
        Those websites weren't leaving, they never arrived..
        marksomnian 9y ago
        They were close to arriving but they backtracked, all 25% of them. I'd call that an exodus before you even arrive.
        kahnpro 9y ago
        You can't die if you were never alive to begin with
        orf 9y ago
        And yet a project can die before it's born
CorySimmons 9y ago
This. FB is intentionally leaving a ton of their ecosystem with the PATENTS virus. Theorizing, but I suspect FB will begin targeting and picking off IP of apps built entirely on React stacks in a few years. Please don't go back to them. Just contribute to Vue's ecosystem like crazy. Worst case scenario it'll keep FB in check.
- peterhunt 9y ago
  When has this ever happened?
ojr 9y ago
there was no exodus, React is the number one javascript framework in the job market in Boston and probably other tech hubs too

dentemple 9y ago

>I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework Competing frameworks will now need a new "Reason #1 to use us instead" for their pitch-decks.

irrational 9y ago

Yeah, we've already settled on Vue (because our lawyers forbade us from using React), but now I'm sure they would approve React. So... do we abandon our work on Vue (which so far is amazing) to switch to React since the React ecosystem is so large, or do we stay the course? Sigh. I wish Facebook had made this change a year ago.

LibertyBeta 9y ago
I would stay with Vue. While the react world is bugger it's mostly made up of competing solutions instead of distinct tasks. That said, this healthy Vue/Angular/React competition has been great for us devs.
- swyx 9y ago
  "great" is relative to how much free time you have evaluating all the various alternatives and finding the bugs/missing use cases nobody cares to tell you about up front..
  - epicide 9y ago
    > the bugs/missing use cases nobody cares to tell you about In the case of fewer frameworks, you would still have these. Arguably more due to lack of competition. > evaluating all the various alternatives Pick one of the "Big 3" above. You'll be fine. Largely due to the previous point.
- nathan_f77 9y ago
  I agree that competition is generally good, but I hate choices so much. I don't even care if Vue is 10 times better than React, I've just spent the last year diving into React and React Native. I've finished 3 big projects and now I'm feeling more confident. And now I get the feeling that I have to throw out a whole bunch of experience and switch to the next big thing. I think I'm going to dig in my heels this time. React is fine. It's more than fine, I absolutely love working with React, Redux, redux-saga, redux-observable, and a whole bunch of other libraries and patterns that I've finally begun to master after over a year of headaches and frustration. I'm not going to switch to Vue, not even for my next side project. I didn't personally care about the BSD+Patents license, but you definitely have to keep your eyes and ears open with backlash like this. Even if I think it's a total issue, it might affect my ability to hire employees or even sell my company. So I'm really glad that React is now released under the MIT license.

AnkhMorporkian 9y ago

I... well, I kinda expected it. Facebook wanted their products to be used, but it was obviously their legal department that made them put the patent clause in. The more people who develop using their libraries, the more contributions they get back, and the more benefit they get from it. I almost guarantee you none of the devs wanted that weird-ass patent clause in there, but I'm guessing that none of them thought that it was a big deal in the long run, just CYA shit you'd expect from a legal department. They were proven wrong, and it impacted their market share, they raised a stink about it and they got it changed.

nebabyte 9y ago

> I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework What do you expect them to do, shrug and come back? I doubt anyone who left based on concerns with their stack being owned by Facebook is likely to regret weaning themselves off of it.

nilliams 9y ago
The react ecosystem is massive, and includes impressive projects like the various backends/renderers: react-native, react-sketch.app, react-vr, react-pdf, ink, that have no equivalent in other frameworks (or at least to nowhere near the same level of maturity), so yeah people ditching it may well regret it.

tomascot 9y ago

As I see it this shows that you can't trust Facebook. And that Mark still is the same dude that once said "They trust me. Dumb fucks".