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I kinda dislike calling addiction a disease. You can't just decide to stop having cancer unlike addiction. Even tho addiction is all about a person's brain chem

I kinda dislike calling addiction a disease. You can't just decide to stop having cancer unlike addiction. Even tho addiction is all about a person's brain chemistry being completely out of whack, alcoholics and other addicts will often have a so called "moment of clarity". No such "moment of clarity" exist for other diseases.

pstuart 9y ago
Let's just call it a "health issue"
kjsnvksdjfn 9y ago
For most you can't just "decide" to stop being addicted either.
jonex 9y ago
The fact that someone, in 2017, would imply that addicted people could just decide to stop being addicted seems to me as reason enough to keep calling it a disease. Just to fight that notion.
- gozur88 9y ago
  You can, with sufficient motivation. The problem is people with that kind of motivation tend not to become junkies in the first place.
  - flachsechs 9y ago
    there are plenty of rich, workaholic, yuppie addicts. professional drive is oftentimes counterbalanced with substance abuse. makes me wonder what kind of crazy bubble you grew up in. what a strange belief to have.
    - wellboy 9y ago
      He still has a point. Often, addicts quit cold turkey after a moment of clarity. That doesn't mean that it is not an illness.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Often, addicts quit cold turkey after a moment of clarity. More accurately, often addicts attempt to do so, but the vast majority who do so relapse. But, in any case, not using drugs doesn't mean you stop having an addiction anymore than avoiding contact with bees means you stop having an allergy to their sting.
        astronautjones 9y ago
        cold turkey is also dangerous - Amy Winehouse quit alcohol cold turkey and died from a relapse of alcohol, a legal and (practically, for adults) unregulated drug
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        That can kill you. And the fact that some manage does not mean that all of them could.
    - gozur88 9y ago
      I grew up in the bubble where a few addicted people I knew managed to kick their addiction when the alternative was sufficiently grim. Did you grow up in a bubble where that never happens? What a depressing bubble.
      - astronautjones 9y ago
        Are you a fan of any art? anyone prolific who was crippled by addiction? it's a human condition and that american ideal of "just straighten up" clearly no longer applies. What if I told you that using the internet was detrimental to your health? Could you just stop?
  - KGIII 9y ago
    No, you can't. You may be able to stop the use, but that doesn't stop the addiction. Addiction continues, regardless of continued use. There is a whole lot of information out there, for free and easily discoverable. If you're really interested in holding an opinion, I'd start at your favorite search engine. Have you heard the phrase, "Dry drunk?" That is a good reference point. A dry drunk is a colloquialism for someone who doesn't drink but still exhibits the behaviors associated with an alcoholic. This is because the brain chemistry has changed. An addict can, sometimes, learn to use in moderation - but the addiction remains. The brain chemistry remains forever altered. There has been huge efforts made in researching this. The science is fairly mature and the results are fairly well understood. Addiction doesn't just go away. Physical dependence may go away, though that depends on the treatment and many other things. There is a difference between drug use, physical dependence, and addiction.
notadoc 9y ago
Perhaps it's better thought of as a social disease or a social pathology, but you're largely right. Addiction is a chemical dependency, it is not a random occurrence.
wu_tang_chris 9y ago
That "moment of clarity" is literally just accepting that you are an alcoholic. Like, that's all it is. Normies love to pontificate about the causes of and solutions to addiction, but I never get more than a paragraph in before I find a vacuous statement that highlights how completely the speaker misses the point. It's fucking exhausting.
- andrepd 9y ago
  Normies?
  - ythn 9y ago
    People that didn't mess up their brains with bad choices
  - SapphireSun 9y ago
    People that pontificate about subcultures with no direct experience.
- wnevets 9y ago
  >That "moment of clarity" is literally just accepting that you are an alcoholic. Like, that's all it is. and what is one of the results of that "moment of clarity? They stop drinking.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    You wish. Plenty of them are fully cognizant they are addicts and still can't stop. That's the whole idea of being addicted. It is a dependency at a physical level outside of any of your abilities to reason. Only very strong people make it out and almost always with assistance from the outside.
    - wnevets 9y ago
      Plenty of them is not ALL of them. The fact that any of them do is my point. Not a single person with cancer or aids can just decide to not have their disease.
mmagin 9y ago
So, you do not regard mental health problems as "disease"?
phs318u 9y ago
> You can’t just decide to stop cancer unlike addiction. Non-substance addict in recovery here. You CANNOT (by definition) “decide” to stop having an addiction. I’m not gonna get into a huge discussion but would like to point out the (ongoing) work looking at the various genetic markers that increase vulnerability or statistical predisposition to various substance and non-substance addictions. http://neurowiki2013.wikidot.com/individual:genetics-of-addiction http://neurowiki2013.wikidot.com/individual:genetics-of-addi...
dragonwriter 9y ago
> You can't just decide to stop having cancer unlike addiction You can't just choose to stop having an addiction, either. That's kind of the whole point of addiction. > alcoholics and other addicts will often have a so called "moment of clarity". A moment of clarity is just the point at which one recognizes a problem. > No such "moment of clarity" exist for other diseases. This is not at all true.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  This is a good counterpoint and it's all true for once a person has become addicted. I think the original post and similar arguments stem from the thinking that before the person took drugs for the first time they made a choice to do so they knew what they were getting into. However the same could be said for people who have STDs and that's still called a disease. Same is true for people who might travel to a country with malaria, if they contract it, it's still a disease but they didn't have to go. I'm guessing people are more willing to be lenient in those cases because there's only a possibility of risk, whereas taking heroin or something seems more reckless. I think there is anger/judgement around someone for having decided to get into this, perhaps it should be a crime before the person is an addict but no longer a crime after they are addicted. Anyway I agree that it still has to be called a disease, you're point helped me come round to this. It's a disease once addicted, but it's not the moment before the decision is made to have it for the first time.
MaulingMonkey 9y ago
You can choose to stop smoking. This may prevent future addiction, but will do nothing to stop your immediate withdrawl symptoms. This may prevent future cancer, but will do nothing to stop any current ulcers. Plenty of other illnesses trace back to life choices. Unprotected sex gets you STDs. Not exercising and eating right leads to heart failure. Isolating yourself socially leads to depression. Many of these can also be stopped or reversed after a "moment of clarity" that causes you to change how you live your life. Addiction is not particularly special in this regard.
ordu 9y ago
I'm nicotine addict. I had had at some point "moment of clarity" and I stopped to use nicotine. Almost two years I was free and than I got moment of "disclarity" and now I couldn't find one more "moment of clarity". It is simple to say "you can decide to stop having addiction", but to really decide to stop and to stop you need something more than just a will to stop. If you believe, that decision itself can stop substance abuse, than think about what is the more probable outcome of such a decision: freedom of addiction or failed attempt to stop. I have no statistics, but looking at other nicotine addicts I would say that decision means almost nothing. Maybe in 1 from 20 cases decision to stop leads to remission. One can argue that in 19 cases there was wrong decision, but it is more likely that there are some other causes, and decision is not cause of remission, though essential accompanying factor. Addiction is something you cannot comprehend by just abstractly thinking about it. You need explore it either by trying, or (preferrable) by studying addicts or at least reading articles wrote by scientists who are studying addiction.

pstuart 9y ago

Let's just call it a "health issue"

kjsnvksdjfn 9y ago

For most you can't just "decide" to stop being addicted either.

jonex 9y ago

The fact that someone, in 2017, would imply that addicted people could just decide to stop being addicted seems to me as reason enough to keep calling it a disease. Just to fight that notion.

gozur88 9y ago
You can, with sufficient motivation. The problem is people with that kind of motivation tend not to become junkies in the first place.
- flachsechs 9y ago
  there are plenty of rich, workaholic, yuppie addicts. professional drive is oftentimes counterbalanced with substance abuse. makes me wonder what kind of crazy bubble you grew up in. what a strange belief to have.
  - wellboy 9y ago
    He still has a point. Often, addicts quit cold turkey after a moment of clarity. That doesn't mean that it is not an illness.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Often, addicts quit cold turkey after a moment of clarity. More accurately, often addicts attempt to do so, but the vast majority who do so relapse. But, in any case, not using drugs doesn't mean you stop having an addiction anymore than avoiding contact with bees means you stop having an allergy to their sting.
      - astronautjones 9y ago
        cold turkey is also dangerous - Amy Winehouse quit alcohol cold turkey and died from a relapse of alcohol, a legal and (practically, for adults) unregulated drug
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      That can kill you. And the fact that some manage does not mean that all of them could.
  - gozur88 9y ago
    I grew up in the bubble where a few addicted people I knew managed to kick their addiction when the alternative was sufficiently grim. Did you grow up in a bubble where that never happens? What a depressing bubble.
    - astronautjones 9y ago
      Are you a fan of any art? anyone prolific who was crippled by addiction? it's a human condition and that american ideal of "just straighten up" clearly no longer applies. What if I told you that using the internet was detrimental to your health? Could you just stop?
- KGIII 9y ago
  No, you can't. You may be able to stop the use, but that doesn't stop the addiction. Addiction continues, regardless of continued use. There is a whole lot of information out there, for free and easily discoverable. If you're really interested in holding an opinion, I'd start at your favorite search engine. Have you heard the phrase, "Dry drunk?" That is a good reference point. A dry drunk is a colloquialism for someone who doesn't drink but still exhibits the behaviors associated with an alcoholic. This is because the brain chemistry has changed. An addict can, sometimes, learn to use in moderation - but the addiction remains. The brain chemistry remains forever altered. There has been huge efforts made in researching this. The science is fairly mature and the results are fairly well understood. Addiction doesn't just go away. Physical dependence may go away, though that depends on the treatment and many other things. There is a difference between drug use, physical dependence, and addiction.

notadoc 9y ago

Perhaps it's better thought of as a social disease or a social pathology, but you're largely right. Addiction is a chemical dependency, it is not a random occurrence.

wu_tang_chris 9y ago

That "moment of clarity" is literally just accepting that you are an alcoholic. Like, that's all it is. Normies love to pontificate about the causes of and solutions to addiction, but I never get more than a paragraph in before I find a vacuous statement that highlights how completely the speaker misses the point. It's fucking exhausting.

andrepd 9y ago
Normies?
- ythn 9y ago
  People that didn't mess up their brains with bad choices
- SapphireSun 9y ago
  People that pontificate about subcultures with no direct experience.
wnevets 9y ago
>That "moment of clarity" is literally just accepting that you are an alcoholic. Like, that's all it is. and what is one of the results of that "moment of clarity? They stop drinking.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  You wish. Plenty of them are fully cognizant they are addicts and still can't stop. That's the whole idea of being addicted. It is a dependency at a physical level outside of any of your abilities to reason. Only very strong people make it out and almost always with assistance from the outside.
  - wnevets 9y ago
    Plenty of them is not ALL of them. The fact that any of them do is my point. Not a single person with cancer or aids can just decide to not have their disease.

mmagin 9y ago

So, you do not regard mental health problems as "disease"?

phs318u 9y ago

> You can’t just decide to stop cancer unlike addiction. Non-substance addict in recovery here. You CANNOT (by definition) “decide” to stop having an addiction. I’m not gonna get into a huge discussion but would like to point out the (ongoing) work looking at the various genetic markers that increase vulnerability or statistical predisposition to various substance and non-substance addictions. http://neurowiki2013.wikidot.com/individual:genetics-of-addiction http://neurowiki2013.wikidot.com/individual:genetics-of-addi...

dragonwriter 9y ago

> You can't just decide to stop having cancer unlike addiction You can't just choose to stop having an addiction, either. That's kind of the whole point of addiction. > alcoholics and other addicts will often have a so called "moment of clarity". A moment of clarity is just the point at which one recognizes a problem. > No such "moment of clarity" exist for other diseases. This is not at all true.

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
This is a good counterpoint and it's all true for once a person has become addicted. I think the original post and similar arguments stem from the thinking that before the person took drugs for the first time they made a choice to do so they knew what they were getting into. However the same could be said for people who have STDs and that's still called a disease. Same is true for people who might travel to a country with malaria, if they contract it, it's still a disease but they didn't have to go. I'm guessing people are more willing to be lenient in those cases because there's only a possibility of risk, whereas taking heroin or something seems more reckless. I think there is anger/judgement around someone for having decided to get into this, perhaps it should be a crime before the person is an addict but no longer a crime after they are addicted. Anyway I agree that it still has to be called a disease, you're point helped me come round to this. It's a disease once addicted, but it's not the moment before the decision is made to have it for the first time.

MaulingMonkey 9y ago

You can choose to stop smoking. This may prevent future addiction, but will do nothing to stop your immediate withdrawl symptoms. This may prevent future cancer, but will do nothing to stop any current ulcers. Plenty of other illnesses trace back to life choices. Unprotected sex gets you STDs. Not exercising and eating right leads to heart failure. Isolating yourself socially leads to depression. Many of these can also be stopped or reversed after a "moment of clarity" that causes you to change how you live your life. Addiction is not particularly special in this regard.

ordu 9y ago

I'm nicotine addict. I had had at some point "moment of clarity" and I stopped to use nicotine. Almost two years I was free and than I got moment of "disclarity" and now I couldn't find one more "moment of clarity". It is simple to say "you can decide to stop having addiction", but to really decide to stop and to stop you need something more than just a will to stop. If you believe, that decision itself can stop substance abuse, than think about what is the more probable outcome of such a decision: freedom of addiction or failed attempt to stop. I have no statistics, but looking at other nicotine addicts I would say that decision means almost nothing. Maybe in 1 from 20 cases decision to stop leads to remission. One can argue that in 19 cases there was wrong decision, but it is more likely that there are some other causes, and decision is not cause of remission, though essential accompanying factor. Addiction is something you cannot comprehend by just abstractly thinking about it. You need explore it either by trying, or (preferrable) by studying addicts or at least reading articles wrote by scientists who are studying addiction.