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I had no idea there were people that needed to view HN differently - let alone 21+ ways. I find the "native" presentation basically perfect for both desktop and

by lolsal 9y ago

I had no idea there were people that needed to view HN differently - let alone 21+ ways. I find the "native" presentation basically perfect for both desktop and mobile browsing.

miguelrochefort 9y ago
> I find the "native" presentation basically perfect for both desktop and mobile browsing. You're joking right?
- lolsal 9y ago
  No. I use Safari for both desktop and mobile, if that matters. I never search. I don't need custom styles to increase readability. I don't need more space around headlines, or article preview thumbnails, or any other superfluous thing. I open interesting headlines for reading and comment threads for discussion into background tabs. I read. I close tabs. I move on with my day. Why did you think I was joking?
  - miguelrochefort 9y ago
    - Perfect: No better implementation can exist. - Best: No better implementation exists. - Favorite: No better implementation is known to me. The current implementation of HN is at best decent. I can think of 100 ways to improve it. I would be surprised you couldn't.
    - vlunkr 9y ago
      I don't think "perfect" was meant to be taken literally.
    - lolsal 9y ago
      I honestly can't think of any.
      - tomtheelder 9y ago
        Thread collapse on the right, increase text size (seriously why is it so tiny?), remove pointless numbers on the left side of homepage, remove BS sponsored YC job postings, take better advantage of horizontal real estate on desktop, make everything easier to click on mobile (I have to zoom to hit stuff all the time). This site is fine, and I use the regular version on desktop and mobile, but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking it's perfect.
        mrep 9y ago
        You know you can increase and decrease views in modern browsers right? On chrome for mac, use command minus for decrease and command equals for increase. I run my browsers at 110%
        tomtheelder 9y ago
        Well sure but that doesn't change the fact that default is bad. It's not a major problem in my life, but it's a flaw in the design.
rxhernandez 9y ago
I wouldn't say perfect. I would like for hidden comments to stay hidden as I bounce back and forth between links shared in an HN thread and the HN thread itself. I know you could argue just open a new tab for each link but sometimes I mistakenly open the link in the HN tab and have to go through the time consuming process of bringing the state back to where it was. This is orders of magnitude more difficult on mobile.
- lolsal 9y ago
  I intentionally used 'basically perfect' because I feel like it's perfect for me, but I am really hesitant to use that qualifier. However, I don't seem to have the same workflow/expectations as you do and I am totally fine with how comments behave on both desktop and mobile.
- dang 9y ago
  By 'hidden' do you mean collapsed using [-]? Those should stay collapsed, even across browser sessions. But we do use JS to do it.
pankajdoharey 9y ago
Just try the first link in that news and if you dont like it or it doesnt change your perspective you can always use what you have always used. But i bet you would like hckr news.
- lolsal 9y ago
  Why would I? Native HN suits me and I don't need or want anything else. Seems silly to use some other site that adds no value and becomes another step further away from the source of truth (the HN page itself).
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
  I tried and I don't. Sorry. Loads/Performs slowly in my older phone. Annoying highlighting occurrs as I scroll. Adds what value?
jandrese 9y ago
This is one of the few sites I frequent where I don't wish they would improve the interface. I've been dreading the day HN gets the "Web 2.0" makeover and turns into yet another information sparse automatic scrolling back button hating javascript nightmare. Seriously, for the main interface it is pretty much perfect. Like Slashdot before they fucked it up. Or Ars before they fucked it up.
- dang 9y ago
  > I've been dreading the day HN gets the Dread something else; that won't happen. We love the text-based, information-dense, minimal style that pg created. I loved it years before becoming a mod and can't imagine changing it. Besides, we're so old-fashioned now that we're due to become retro chic in another half-cycle. Why sell at the bottom?
  - jandrese 9y ago
    You won't, but what about the next guy? That's always the way these things go. Someone creates a nice simple service and gets a ton of traffice, but gets bored with running it and moves on. Next guy goes "This site looks like it is from 1997, and it's barely monetized at all, I've got this book on web design that will make it look 1000% better by getting rid of all of these ugly words and making it so beautifully minimal."
    - dang 9y ago
      In that case we will have done a bad job of picking 'next guy'.
  - krapp 9y ago
    I think you could stand to tweak the default font size and leading just a skosh though, and make all that information dense text easier to read.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  > I've been dreading the day HN gets the "Web 2.0" makeover and turns into yet another information sparse automatic scrolling back button hating javascript nightmare speaking of reddit's new redesign... > Like Slashdot before they fucked it up. Or Ars before they fucked it up. Man, it's almost hilarious
baby 9y ago
I can't agree with you, reading comments is an awful experience on both desktop and mobile. Their addition of the [-] eases the pain but it is still painful to click on it on mobile, and it still on the freaking right of every comments instead of being on the left. I know have two [-] [-] on both side of each comments because I use a firefox plugin to have one in the right place.
- lolsal 9y ago
  Why is it so awful? Collapsing, threaded comments seem to be a great way to organize organic discussions. How would you do it differently? 'Awful' implies that it is very far from your preferred format.
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
    They don’t complain about threading, they complain about the UX of collapsing threads. On mobile, the hit target is too small (a minus sign) to hit reliably with a single quick tap.
    - baby 9y ago
      This and it is on the right, not on the left (so it's horizontal position always changes, see reddit for a good example of good UI).
amrrs 9y ago
IMHO, HN is HN (deeply loved and mostly used) because of its minimalism and saying No to almost everything a modern web designer would think of in their user stories - except performance. It's insanely fast loading. Just text. Pure text. Sometimes on desktop I replace the yellow background with white (css hack) otherwise my colleagues ask me what am I looking at yellow all day. Maybe a sort by most voted, most discussed and most recent would help but again not sure, sometimes playing by whatever available and randomness adds a greater flavour than controlling everything.
wingworks 9y ago
I think HN gets away without changing the site design in years because I'd say most HN users who want to see it differently will just make the changes themselves. It's not something an average consumer could do on say newyorktimes. I for one can't stand the default design and use the Chrome extension Georgify, which makes it 1000x easier to read for me. But we're all different and I love that there are so many ways to consume this site. Or that I have the ability changes things to just the way I'd want.

by lolsal 9y ago

I had no idea there were people that needed to view HN differently - let alone 21+ ways. I find the "native" presentation basically perfect for both desktop and mobile browsing.

miguelrochefort 9y ago

> I find the "native" presentation basically perfect for both desktop and mobile browsing. You're joking right?

lolsal 9y ago
No. I use Safari for both desktop and mobile, if that matters. I never search. I don't need custom styles to increase readability. I don't need more space around headlines, or article preview thumbnails, or any other superfluous thing. I open interesting headlines for reading and comment threads for discussion into background tabs. I read. I close tabs. I move on with my day. Why did you think I was joking?
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  - Perfect: No better implementation can exist. - Best: No better implementation exists. - Favorite: No better implementation is known to me. The current implementation of HN is at best decent. I can think of 100 ways to improve it. I would be surprised you couldn't.
  - vlunkr 9y ago
    I don't think "perfect" was meant to be taken literally.
  - lolsal 9y ago
    I honestly can't think of any.
    - tomtheelder 9y ago
      Thread collapse on the right, increase text size (seriously why is it so tiny?), remove pointless numbers on the left side of homepage, remove BS sponsored YC job postings, take better advantage of horizontal real estate on desktop, make everything easier to click on mobile (I have to zoom to hit stuff all the time). This site is fine, and I use the regular version on desktop and mobile, but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking it's perfect.
      - mrep 9y ago
        You know you can increase and decrease views in modern browsers right? On chrome for mac, use command minus for decrease and command equals for increase. I run my browsers at 110%
        tomtheelder 9y ago
        Well sure but that doesn't change the fact that default is bad. It's not a major problem in my life, but it's a flaw in the design.

rxhernandez 9y ago

I wouldn't say perfect. I would like for hidden comments to stay hidden as I bounce back and forth between links shared in an HN thread and the HN thread itself. I know you could argue just open a new tab for each link but sometimes I mistakenly open the link in the HN tab and have to go through the time consuming process of bringing the state back to where it was. This is orders of magnitude more difficult on mobile.

lolsal 9y ago
I intentionally used 'basically perfect' because I feel like it's perfect for me, but I am really hesitant to use that qualifier. However, I don't seem to have the same workflow/expectations as you do and I am totally fine with how comments behave on both desktop and mobile.
dang 9y ago
By 'hidden' do you mean collapsed using [-]? Those should stay collapsed, even across browser sessions. But we do use JS to do it.

pankajdoharey 9y ago

Just try the first link in that news and if you dont like it or it doesnt change your perspective you can always use what you have always used. But i bet you would like hckr news.

lolsal 9y ago
Why would I? Native HN suits me and I don't need or want anything else. Seems silly to use some other site that adds no value and becomes another step further away from the source of truth (the HN page itself).
SubiculumCode 9y ago
I tried and I don't. Sorry. Loads/Performs slowly in my older phone. Annoying highlighting occurrs as I scroll. Adds what value?

jandrese 9y ago

This is one of the few sites I frequent where I don't wish they would improve the interface. I've been dreading the day HN gets the "Web 2.0" makeover and turns into yet another information sparse automatic scrolling back button hating javascript nightmare. Seriously, for the main interface it is pretty much perfect. Like Slashdot before they fucked it up. Or Ars before they fucked it up.

dang 9y ago
> I've been dreading the day HN gets the Dread something else; that won't happen. We love the text-based, information-dense, minimal style that pg created. I loved it years before becoming a mod and can't imagine changing it. Besides, we're so old-fashioned now that we're due to become retro chic in another half-cycle. Why sell at the bottom?
- jandrese 9y ago
  You won't, but what about the next guy? That's always the way these things go. Someone creates a nice simple service and gets a ton of traffice, but gets bored with running it and moves on. Next guy goes "This site looks like it is from 1997, and it's barely monetized at all, I've got this book on web design that will make it look 1000% better by getting rid of all of these ugly words and making it so beautifully minimal."
  - dang 9y ago
    In that case we will have done a bad job of picking 'next guy'.
- krapp 9y ago
  I think you could stand to tweak the default font size and leading just a skosh though, and make all that information dense text easier to read.
nebabyte 9y ago
> I've been dreading the day HN gets the "Web 2.0" makeover and turns into yet another information sparse automatic scrolling back button hating javascript nightmare speaking of reddit's new redesign... > Like Slashdot before they fucked it up. Or Ars before they fucked it up. Man, it's almost hilarious

baby 9y ago

I can't agree with you, reading comments is an awful experience on both desktop and mobile. Their addition of the [-] eases the pain but it is still painful to click on it on mobile, and it still on the freaking right of every comments instead of being on the left. I know have two [-] [-] on both side of each comments because I use a firefox plugin to have one in the right place.

lolsal 9y ago
Why is it so awful? Collapsing, threaded comments seem to be a great way to organize organic discussions. How would you do it differently? 'Awful' implies that it is very far from your preferred format.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
  They don’t complain about threading, they complain about the UX of collapsing threads. On mobile, the hit target is too small (a minus sign) to hit reliably with a single quick tap.
  - baby 9y ago
    This and it is on the right, not on the left (so it's horizontal position always changes, see reddit for a good example of good UI).

amrrs 9y ago

IMHO, HN is HN (deeply loved and mostly used) because of its minimalism and saying No to almost everything a modern web designer would think of in their user stories - except performance. It's insanely fast loading. Just text. Pure text. Sometimes on desktop I replace the yellow background with white (css hack) otherwise my colleagues ask me what am I looking at yellow all day. Maybe a sort by most voted, most discussed and most recent would help but again not sure, sometimes playing by whatever available and randomness adds a greater flavour than controlling everything.

wingworks 9y ago

I think HN gets away without changing the site design in years because I'd say most HN users who want to see it differently will just make the changes themselves. It's not something an average consumer could do on say newyorktimes. I for one can't stand the default design and use the Chrome extension Georgify, which makes it 1000x easier to read for me. But we're all different and I love that there are so many ways to consume this site. Or that I have the ability changes things to just the way I'd want.