3 ms·

Hmmm, well there's this small study: http://www.treadmillreviews.net/water-bottle-germs-revealed/ http://www.treadmillreviews.net/water-bottle-germs-revealed/

by new299 9y ago

Hmmm, well there's this small study: http://www.treadmillreviews.net/water-bottle-germs-revealed/ http://www.treadmillreviews.net/water-bottle-germs-revealed/ So it seems likely that there's bacterial buildup. But I'd be interested in further reviews, more data. > If you're going to suggest such extreme measures I'm not suggesting any measures (and is using soap an extreme measure?). But it doesn't seem completely wasteful and a "sign of mental decline" to want to buy bottled water in certain situations, as another poster was suggesting. People are different, and have different requirements are priorities. It's absolutely possible of course that we might determine that the environmental costs associated with bottled water production are too high a burden on society. And that they should be outlawed. But that's a different discussion (and obviously if this is required there are many other items that would likely also be outlawed).

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gt_ 9y ago
I don't think the "treadmill experts" at treadmillreviews.net are any more reputable than Good Housekeeping's youtube channel. In response to your platitude on the environmental impact, I assume you don't mean 'literal species extinction' because of your optimism that it will be repaired once found. So, you need to define what you mean by "too high a burden." Your opposition's argument is that it's "unnecessary" which is measurable and, in my view, not disproven in the research from the treadmill experts. "People are different, and have different requirements and priorities" is an intellectual dead end.
- new299 9y ago
  > I don't think the "treadmill experts" at treadmillreviews.net are any more reputable than Good Housekeeping's youtube channel. Can you find a better reference? Or one suggesting that cups/bottles do not require cleaning after being used to contain only water? That seems like a testable hypothesis. Is the burden of proof on me? I'm not suggesting any particular course of action. I'm just suggesting that it is not unreasonable to buy a bottle of water, in certain situations. > Your opposition's argument is that it's "unnecessary" which is measurable and, in my view, not disproven in the research from the treadmill experts. No, the treadmill tests are not hugely informative. It provides some indication that there is in some cases bacterial buildup on reused water bottles (that are not washed). So, if you want to make an informed decision, it would be useful to have more data. It's does not currently seem reasonable to call people "lazy" or "apathetic" for occasionally consuming bottled water. To be clear, that's the main issue. An arbitrary judgment against other people is being made without good supporting evidence. > "People are different, and have different requirements and priorities" is an intellectual dead end. Is it not obvious that people have different requirements? Is it hard to imagine a variety of situations where you might not easily be able to bring your own empty water bottle? Or situations in which it might be convenient to purchase water, and a container for water? Using the logic presented here, I could easily also say that a reusable water bottle is lazy and apathetic. Because most people are near enough to a source of water that they could just wait to have a drink. They don't need to waste resources by creating yet another water container... but I understand that it might be convenient for them, and they've decided to make that tradeoff.
  - gt_ 9y ago
    You're suggesting it's not unreasonable, but your evidence of a reason is poor. I did not accuse anyone of being apathetic or lazy (nether word is in my comment) but I do question the behavior because it is drastically less efficient than tap water. My mother is anything but apathetic and lazy but has always insisted on bottled water only. I have quesioned it and my impression is that she is marketed to. It seems like a comfort food of sorts. Of course people are different. This point brought nothing but noise to the conversation. Face palm.
    - new299 9y ago
      > I did not accuse anyone of being apathetic or lazy (nether word is in my comment) but I do question the behavior because it is drastically less efficient than tap water. This thread, and my comments, are directed toward a commenter who called people who buy bottled water lazy and apathetic (see parent comments). > My mother is anything but apathetic and lazy but has always insisted on bottled water only. I have quesioned it and my impression is that she is marketed to. It seems like a comfort food of sorts. That's a very different situation than purchasing bottled water occasionally while traveling. Elsewhere (see other comments) I noted that the references I've found show about 13% of people (in the US) purchase bottled water as their primary source of drinking water. At the beginning of the thread, a poster suggested that purchasing bottled water is a sign of the mental decline of American society. However, most bottled water is not purchased as the users primary source of drinking water. And it does not seem justifiable to call people who occasionally purchase bottled water, while traveling for example, lazy, apathetic, and in mental decline... That's it really. Can you find a way to justify calling people who purchase bottled water lazy, apathetic and in mental decline? Or are there other, not totally unreasonable reasons for occasionally purchasing bottled water? Or at least ones that are as justifiable as things that almost all members of society do on a daily basis (like buying other packaged goods). > Of course people are different. This point brought nothing but noise to the conversation. Face palm. I don't think you've read the posts I'm responding too. They argue that all people who purchase bottled water are lazy, apathetic, and a sign of "mental decline". They don't leave any room for people being different and potentially having different requirements. They suggest that all people are capable and should be willing to carry around their own re-usable water bottle in all scenarios otherwise they are lazy and apathetic. Yes, it's an obvious point. But... seemingly not one that is acceptable to everybody.

by new299 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

gt_ 9y ago

I don't think the "treadmill experts" at treadmillreviews.net are any more reputable than Good Housekeeping's youtube channel. In response to your platitude on the environmental impact, I assume you don't mean 'literal species extinction' because of your optimism that it will be repaired once found. So, you need to define what you mean by "too high a burden." Your opposition's argument is that it's "unnecessary" which is measurable and, in my view, not disproven in the research from the treadmill experts. "People are different, and have different requirements and priorities" is an intellectual dead end.

new299 9y ago
> I don't think the "treadmill experts" at treadmillreviews.net are any more reputable than Good Housekeeping's youtube channel. Can you find a better reference? Or one suggesting that cups/bottles do not require cleaning after being used to contain only water? That seems like a testable hypothesis. Is the burden of proof on me? I'm not suggesting any particular course of action. I'm just suggesting that it is not unreasonable to buy a bottle of water, in certain situations. > Your opposition's argument is that it's "unnecessary" which is measurable and, in my view, not disproven in the research from the treadmill experts. No, the treadmill tests are not hugely informative. It provides some indication that there is in some cases bacterial buildup on reused water bottles (that are not washed). So, if you want to make an informed decision, it would be useful to have more data. It's does not currently seem reasonable to call people "lazy" or "apathetic" for occasionally consuming bottled water. To be clear, that's the main issue. An arbitrary judgment against other people is being made without good supporting evidence. > "People are different, and have different requirements and priorities" is an intellectual dead end. Is it not obvious that people have different requirements? Is it hard to imagine a variety of situations where you might not easily be able to bring your own empty water bottle? Or situations in which it might be convenient to purchase water, and a container for water? Using the logic presented here, I could easily also say that a reusable water bottle is lazy and apathetic. Because most people are near enough to a source of water that they could just wait to have a drink. They don't need to waste resources by creating yet another water container... but I understand that it might be convenient for them, and they've decided to make that tradeoff.
- gt_ 9y ago
  You're suggesting it's not unreasonable, but your evidence of a reason is poor. I did not accuse anyone of being apathetic or lazy (nether word is in my comment) but I do question the behavior because it is drastically less efficient than tap water. My mother is anything but apathetic and lazy but has always insisted on bottled water only. I have quesioned it and my impression is that she is marketed to. It seems like a comfort food of sorts. Of course people are different. This point brought nothing but noise to the conversation. Face palm.
  - new299 9y ago
    > I did not accuse anyone of being apathetic or lazy (nether word is in my comment) but I do question the behavior because it is drastically less efficient than tap water. This thread, and my comments, are directed toward a commenter who called people who buy bottled water lazy and apathetic (see parent comments). > My mother is anything but apathetic and lazy but has always insisted on bottled water only. I have quesioned it and my impression is that she is marketed to. It seems like a comfort food of sorts. That's a very different situation than purchasing bottled water occasionally while traveling. Elsewhere (see other comments) I noted that the references I've found show about 13% of people (in the US) purchase bottled water as their primary source of drinking water. At the beginning of the thread, a poster suggested that purchasing bottled water is a sign of the mental decline of American society. However, most bottled water is not purchased as the users primary source of drinking water. And it does not seem justifiable to call people who occasionally purchase bottled water, while traveling for example, lazy, apathetic, and in mental decline... That's it really. Can you find a way to justify calling people who purchase bottled water lazy, apathetic and in mental decline? Or are there other, not totally unreasonable reasons for occasionally purchasing bottled water? Or at least ones that are as justifiable as things that almost all members of society do on a daily basis (like buying other packaged goods). > Of course people are different. This point brought nothing but noise to the conversation. Face palm. I don't think you've read the posts I'm responding too. They argue that all people who purchase bottled water are lazy, apathetic, and a sign of "mental decline". They don't leave any room for people being different and potentially having different requirements. They suggest that all people are capable and should be willing to carry around their own re-usable water bottle in all scenarios otherwise they are lazy and apathetic. Yes, it's an obvious point. But... seemingly not one that is acceptable to everybody.