7 ms·

I'm sorry but you will have to do more to explain your point on black cab user experience being horrendous. Whilst it can be hard to get a hold of one at times,

by squigg 9y ago

I'm sorry but you will have to do more to explain your point on black cab user experience being horrendous. Whilst it can be hard to get a hold of one at times, in my experience of 20 years of using them, the user experience is great - the drivers are typically friendly and get you there as quickly as they can. I have used Uber many times in London and abandoned it months ago, as the drivers don't have the local knowledge required to quickly move across what is a very busy city. SatNav isn't everything - give me driver experience every single time.

princeb 9y ago
uber is pretty much useless in zone 1 since the roads are too narrow and the traffic too extreme. you could literally take a leisurely walk from the british museum down to leicester square garden faster than a minicab. black cabs have the benefit of being allowed to travel on bus lanes and that makes all the difference in central London. that said, black cabs get more and more unreliable the further away from central London you are.
- darrenf 9y ago
  As someone who grew up in zone 4 and has lived for 18 years in zone 6, I don't recognise the last point here at all.
djsumdog 9y ago
I've only taken a London cab a handful of times, but I never had a bad experience. I don't think I've had a bad experience with Uber drivers either...maybe one or two weird conversations .. same with Lyft drivers. I just want to know if Uber drivers can average the same income as cabbies working the same hours. In New Zealand, several Uber drivers use to be cabbies and switched from Wellington Combined because they earned more money with Uber. That was years ago and I'm curious if that's still the case or if those drivers have switched back. In Berlin, the Uber app hails a regular taxi driver that's under standard taxi regulations from the city, so there it's more just a billing system. Everywhere else I've taken Lyft/Uber, the drivers never started out in taxis. It's turning the taxi industry into a "gig economy" I realize a lot of people got their start in new cities as taxi drivers; immigrants from generations back. Things are changing. It's not good or bad, just different. The biggest concern is Uber as a company. Most of the rides I've mentioned I've taken with others. I prefer public transport when possible, Lyft when I have to. For a while on HN, ever week was another post: Greyball, the Hell map, the two harassment blog posts, anti-union efforts against drivers, hiring Eric Holder for damage control, the continuing Google/Waymo self driving tech court case, etc. Are there any recent posts on how much drivers earn? I've heard it's going down each year. Is it worth it to lose an entire career path for some people for cheaper rides?
- confounded 9y ago
  > I just want to know if Uber drivers can average the same income as cabbies working the same hours. I have no data, but my prior based on conversations in London is "no way". Uber pays similarly to minicabs --- minimum wage-ish when car maintenance is accounted for. Pre-Uber, I heard cabbies made £40k-£60k pretty steadily.
  - isostatic 9y ago
    £50k is more than 90% of the country, its no wonder they hate the competiton. (I suspect they make £60k but they don't declare anywhere near that)
UK-AL 9y ago
I've had black cab drivers insist that I can't use my card, and that I must get out. I've had cab drivers refuse to drive me to certain parts of London because it's inconvenient for them. They are also really expensive.
- relyio 9y ago
  Pretty much this, and I have only crossed the channel a handful times to visit friends. Same experience in France when trying out legacy taxis, they are supposed to take cards, they display it on their car, yet, some will refuse it and cause trouble if you try using it. Basically, it comes down to lack of serious customer support and accountability system. Setting new rules from top to bottom in a legacy industry that has decades of industry malpractice under its belt cannot be effective if you aren't able to enforce those rules.
- lmm 9y ago
  > I've had black cab drivers insist that I can't use my card, and that I must get out. > I've had cab drivers refuse to drive me to certain parts of London because it's inconvenient for them. Report them, by taxi license number (displayed on a plate in the passenger area). Both those things are rare and taken seriously, but the authorities can't do anything if they aren't told.
  - UK-AL 9y ago
    Defiantly not rare. And I don't want to spend my evening complaining to tfl.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      Then just accept the fact you’re part of the problem. If everyone was like you and only in it for themselves, quality service would be rare, if not ever.
      - UK-AL 9y ago
        I'm PAYING money in order to get a service to reduce the stress in my life. I'm not paying money to increase it. I improve services by voting with my wallet, which black cabs are trying to take away from the consumer.
Anderkent 9y ago
I've been turned away by a black cab driver because they didn't want to go where I wanted to go. Yes, during the rush hours they are faster than ubers (mostly because they have priviledged access to bus lanes etc). But catching a black cab at night is almost impossible. Also some of my friends regularly get ignored by black cabs when they try to hail it.
- isostatic 9y ago
  Black cabs need to be kicked out of bus lanes. They should be for mass transport of people, not chauffeuring businessmen from Euston to Canary Wharf quickly.

by squigg 9y ago

princeb 9y ago

uber is pretty much useless in zone 1 since the roads are too narrow and the traffic too extreme. you could literally take a leisurely walk from the british museum down to leicester square garden faster than a minicab. black cabs have the benefit of being allowed to travel on bus lanes and that makes all the difference in central London. that said, black cabs get more and more unreliable the further away from central London you are.

darrenf 9y ago
As someone who grew up in zone 4 and has lived for 18 years in zone 6, I don't recognise the last point here at all.

djsumdog 9y ago

I've only taken a London cab a handful of times, but I never had a bad experience. I don't think I've had a bad experience with Uber drivers either...maybe one or two weird conversations .. same with Lyft drivers. I just want to know if Uber drivers can average the same income as cabbies working the same hours. In New Zealand, several Uber drivers use to be cabbies and switched from Wellington Combined because they earned more money with Uber. That was years ago and I'm curious if that's still the case or if those drivers have switched back. In Berlin, the Uber app hails a regular taxi driver that's under standard taxi regulations from the city, so there it's more just a billing system. Everywhere else I've taken Lyft/Uber, the drivers never started out in taxis. It's turning the taxi industry into a "gig economy" I realize a lot of people got their start in new cities as taxi drivers; immigrants from generations back. Things are changing. It's not good or bad, just different. The biggest concern is Uber as a company. Most of the rides I've mentioned I've taken with others. I prefer public transport when possible, Lyft when I have to. For a while on HN, ever week was another post: Greyball, the Hell map, the two harassment blog posts, anti-union efforts against drivers, hiring Eric Holder for damage control, the continuing Google/Waymo self driving tech court case, etc. Are there any recent posts on how much drivers earn? I've heard it's going down each year. Is it worth it to lose an entire career path for some people for cheaper rides?

confounded 9y ago
> I just want to know if Uber drivers can average the same income as cabbies working the same hours. I have no data, but my prior based on conversations in London is "no way". Uber pays similarly to minicabs --- minimum wage-ish when car maintenance is accounted for. Pre-Uber, I heard cabbies made £40k-£60k pretty steadily.
- isostatic 9y ago
  £50k is more than 90% of the country, its no wonder they hate the competiton. (I suspect they make £60k but they don't declare anywhere near that)

UK-AL 9y ago

I've had black cab drivers insist that I can't use my card, and that I must get out. I've had cab drivers refuse to drive me to certain parts of London because it's inconvenient for them. They are also really expensive.

relyio 9y ago
Pretty much this, and I have only crossed the channel a handful times to visit friends. Same experience in France when trying out legacy taxis, they are supposed to take cards, they display it on their car, yet, some will refuse it and cause trouble if you try using it. Basically, it comes down to lack of serious customer support and accountability system. Setting new rules from top to bottom in a legacy industry that has decades of industry malpractice under its belt cannot be effective if you aren't able to enforce those rules.
lmm 9y ago
> I've had black cab drivers insist that I can't use my card, and that I must get out. > I've had cab drivers refuse to drive me to certain parts of London because it's inconvenient for them. Report them, by taxi license number (displayed on a plate in the passenger area). Both those things are rare and taken seriously, but the authorities can't do anything if they aren't told.
- UK-AL 9y ago
  Defiantly not rare. And I don't want to spend my evening complaining to tfl.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    Then just accept the fact you’re part of the problem. If everyone was like you and only in it for themselves, quality service would be rare, if not ever.
    - UK-AL 9y ago
      I'm PAYING money in order to get a service to reduce the stress in my life. I'm not paying money to increase it. I improve services by voting with my wallet, which black cabs are trying to take away from the consumer.

Anderkent 9y ago

I've been turned away by a black cab driver because they didn't want to go where I wanted to go. Yes, during the rush hours they are faster than ubers (mostly because they have priviledged access to bus lanes etc). But catching a black cab at night is almost impossible. Also some of my friends regularly get ignored by black cabs when they try to hail it.

isostatic 9y ago
Black cabs need to be kicked out of bus lanes. They should be for mass transport of people, not chauffeuring businessmen from Euston to Canary Wharf quickly.