5 ms·

Hmm, does that mean they used Greyball in London, or just the known sleazy uses? British regulators, just like CARB, have famously little sense of humour for st

Hmm, does that mean they used Greyball in London, or just the known sleazy uses? British regulators, just like CARB, have famously little sense of humour for stuff like that.

gsnedders 9y ago
AIUI, the regulator had evidence that Uber had used Greyball in some markets (i.e., the known uses), and Uber were unable to convince the regulator that they had not used Greyball in London.
- dx034 9y ago
  Not even sure how you would convince them. Full code and database audit isn't easy nor cheap and I doubt Uber wants to pay for that. Apart from that, there's no way to detect if Uber runs services to detect regulators.
  - gsnedders 9y ago
    Oh, I agree it's totally impossible, and the only solution is to not attempt to evade regulators in the first place. Otherwise you end up like Uber: > We know you've evaded regulators in these cases, in other markets. How should we know whether we don't have evidence of you evading us because you successfully have or because you haven't used it here? We didn't use it here. > You said that in the markets where we have clear proof you used that, why should we believe you? We won't disclose our code/database. > OK, we'll assume you did use it here. We didn't use it. etc.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Open up your books. The problem is that once you have a history of unethical behaviour, nobody believes you when you say 'don't worry, trust me'.
    - dominotw 9y ago
      were they given a chance to "convince" ? are they banned forever then?
    - metamet 9y ago
      Trump would beg to differ.
Boothroid 9y ago
In my experience TfL are a pretty crappy organisation themselves. Cab drivers commonly take longer routes in order to inflate their fares. Try complaining about this and see how far you get. Worse, try seeing what happens if you are injured through negligence of a bus driver (as happened to my girlfriend). They will fight you even in spite of incriminating CCTV until they are dragged into court, and only offer to settle at the last possible chance. TfL are scum.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Cab drivers commonly take longer routes in order to inflate their fares. Keep a receipt and make a complaint. Longer routes would be really obvious in the taximeter data. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2304/pdfs/uksi_20062304_en.pdf http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2304/pdfs/uksi_20062...
  - dalore 9y ago
    Yeah bit of work there already. Receipts are a joke, they often give you a blank piece of paper where you write whatever you want on it. They think they are doing you are favour because they assume you are going to write more on it then the true cost so when you claim you make a profit.
  - Boothroid 9y ago
    Do you speak from experience? I do - and they put it down to discretion of the driver to cater for traffic conditions etc - even when I could physically see the alternate route around Clapham Common was empty! Plus you get obvious contempt from the people handling your complaint for good measure. The system is not designed for the benefit of transport users.

Hmm, does that mean they used Greyball in London, or just the known sleazy uses? British regulators, just like CARB, have famously little sense of humour for stuff like that.

gsnedders 9y ago

AIUI, the regulator had evidence that Uber had used Greyball in some markets (i.e., the known uses), and Uber were unable to convince the regulator that they had not used Greyball in London.

dx034 9y ago
Not even sure how you would convince them. Full code and database audit isn't easy nor cheap and I doubt Uber wants to pay for that. Apart from that, there's no way to detect if Uber runs services to detect regulators.
- gsnedders 9y ago
  Oh, I agree it's totally impossible, and the only solution is to not attempt to evade regulators in the first place. Otherwise you end up like Uber: > We know you've evaded regulators in these cases, in other markets. How should we know whether we don't have evidence of you evading us because you successfully have or because you haven't used it here? We didn't use it here. > You said that in the markets where we have clear proof you used that, why should we believe you? We won't disclose our code/database. > OK, we'll assume you did use it here. We didn't use it. etc.
- vkou 9y ago
  Open up your books. The problem is that once you have a history of unethical behaviour, nobody believes you when you say 'don't worry, trust me'.
  - dominotw 9y ago
    were they given a chance to "convince" ? are they banned forever then?
  - metamet 9y ago
    Trump would beg to differ.

Boothroid 9y ago

In my experience TfL are a pretty crappy organisation themselves. Cab drivers commonly take longer routes in order to inflate their fares. Try complaining about this and see how far you get. Worse, try seeing what happens if you are injured through negligence of a bus driver (as happened to my girlfriend). They will fight you even in spite of incriminating CCTV until they are dragged into court, and only offer to settle at the last possible chance. TfL are scum.

DanBC 9y ago
> Cab drivers commonly take longer routes in order to inflate their fares. Keep a receipt and make a complaint. Longer routes would be really obvious in the taximeter data. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2304/pdfs/uksi_20062304_en.pdf http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2304/pdfs/uksi_20062...
- dalore 9y ago
  Yeah bit of work there already. Receipts are a joke, they often give you a blank piece of paper where you write whatever you want on it. They think they are doing you are favour because they assume you are going to write more on it then the true cost so when you claim you make a profit.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  Do you speak from experience? I do - and they put it down to discretion of the driver to cater for traffic conditions etc - even when I could physically see the alternate route around Clapham Common was empty! Plus you get obvious contempt from the people handling your complaint for good measure. The system is not designed for the benefit of transport users.