5 ms·

To add a counterpoint to all the apologetics, ADHD as a cause rather than as a symptom is a point of view dominant in the US and not shared by most of the rest

by tome 9y ago

To add a counterpoint to all the apologetics, ADHD as a cause rather than as a symptom is a point of view dominant in the US and not shared by most of the rest of the world. If you're inclined to take drugs to try to fix it then so be it, but you might want to try behaviour change first. [FWIW this reply and "advice" is not directed at the parent, kobeya, but is a general point of information.]

davymac 9y ago
Learned inattention is different from ADHD. The whole world has learned innattentive behavior at this point. This can be solved without medication fairly simply. ADHD or as Dr Russell Barkley calls it, Executive Function Disorder, is neurological in origin. By all means try behavior changes first, like you said, but if that works, it was never ADHD to begin with. Finding a youtube video of Dr Russell Barkley was a godsend for me.
- justanotherjoe 9y ago
  > but if that works, it was never ADHD to begin with You're putting yourself in an irrefutable position then.
  - kortex 9y ago
    No, it's just saying that under scrutiny, it's not all that hard to differentiate "learned inattention " and bad habits from genuine ADHD.
  - dlfsdkfnlk 9y ago
    Yes, because the argument is that the US over-diagnoses ADHD. As in kids being kids and not being laser-focused are suddenly diagnosed with ADHD. In this case, someone procrastinating because they have something difficult to do would be ADHD. It may not be the case.
exergy 9y ago
> "Not shared by the rest of the world" And that is their loss. ADHD is very much a cause whose impact goes far beyond just procrastrination. It causes people to be terrible spouses who are never there when they are needed. It causes lost friendships through blinkered social conduct. It causes persistent self hatred and anxiety and depression. "you might want to try behaviour change first" This is such a, forgive the harshness, ignorant way of thinking about ADHD that it makes my blood boil. Behaviour change works when the person in question has the capabilities of making that change stick. This is the equivalent of telling a handicapped person to try b-mod to climb the stairs. It. Just. Won't. Work. A shortage of persistence cannot be solved through more vigorous exhortations towards greater persistence. Here's how I think of the drugs. The drugs lay the platform so that I can implement the behaviour change. They don't let me study better. They let me start studying in the first place, at which point, all the best practices and behaviour modifications can come into play.
- kortex 9y ago
  Thank you. It's such a toxic sentiment which seems to only originate from people with limited exposure to the condition. It makes my blood boil as well to hear/read things like "you might want to try behaviour change first". I want to be like, "what do you think I've been trying to do since the age of 8?" Meds have been absolutely indispensable for at least starting to implement good habits, extended focus, etc. And it's still a huge struggle.
  - tome 9y ago
    As disinclined as I am to enter a discussion about this I'd like to suggest interpreting my hasty terminology "behaviour change" as encompassing a wide variety of behaviours, and not just of the affected individual. "Environment" might have been a better word. For example, under "behaviour" or "environment" as opposed to "medication", I include the poor conditions in public schools, the poor quality of food, the addicting quality of television, internet and computer games and the poor quality of many interpersonal relationships.
    - 9y ago
dx034 9y ago
What is most of the rest of the world? Most countries in Europe recognize it. International medical associations also recognize it. Are there countries where a psychiatrist would never diagnose ADHD?
- isolli 9y ago
  I think this is about adult ADHD.
falcolas 9y ago
Some quick video material about the belief that ADHD doesn't exist, and is not a treatable condition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tLi1bYilA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tLi1bYilA - informative and entertaining. But don't just take their word for it, have a look at the reference material in the video description. Another interesting, and emotional, view of the effect of not being on meds from the same artist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9qK8-sMGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9qK8-sMGQ

by tome 9y ago

davymac 9y ago

Learned inattention is different from ADHD. The whole world has learned innattentive behavior at this point. This can be solved without medication fairly simply. ADHD or as Dr Russell Barkley calls it, Executive Function Disorder, is neurological in origin. By all means try behavior changes first, like you said, but if that works, it was never ADHD to begin with. Finding a youtube video of Dr Russell Barkley was a godsend for me.

justanotherjoe 9y ago
> but if that works, it was never ADHD to begin with You're putting yourself in an irrefutable position then.
- kortex 9y ago
  No, it's just saying that under scrutiny, it's not all that hard to differentiate "learned inattention " and bad habits from genuine ADHD.
- dlfsdkfnlk 9y ago
  Yes, because the argument is that the US over-diagnoses ADHD. As in kids being kids and not being laser-focused are suddenly diagnosed with ADHD. In this case, someone procrastinating because they have something difficult to do would be ADHD. It may not be the case.

exergy 9y ago

> "Not shared by the rest of the world" And that is their loss. ADHD is very much a cause whose impact goes far beyond just procrastrination. It causes people to be terrible spouses who are never there when they are needed. It causes lost friendships through blinkered social conduct. It causes persistent self hatred and anxiety and depression. "you might want to try behaviour change first" This is such a, forgive the harshness, ignorant way of thinking about ADHD that it makes my blood boil. Behaviour change works when the person in question has the capabilities of making that change stick. This is the equivalent of telling a handicapped person to try b-mod to climb the stairs. It. Just. Won't. Work. A shortage of persistence cannot be solved through more vigorous exhortations towards greater persistence. Here's how I think of the drugs. The drugs lay the platform so that I can implement the behaviour change. They don't let me study better. They let me start studying in the first place, at which point, all the best practices and behaviour modifications can come into play.

kortex 9y ago
Thank you. It's such a toxic sentiment which seems to only originate from people with limited exposure to the condition. It makes my blood boil as well to hear/read things like "you might want to try behaviour change first". I want to be like, "what do you think I've been trying to do since the age of 8?" Meds have been absolutely indispensable for at least starting to implement good habits, extended focus, etc. And it's still a huge struggle.
- tome 9y ago
  As disinclined as I am to enter a discussion about this I'd like to suggest interpreting my hasty terminology "behaviour change" as encompassing a wide variety of behaviours, and not just of the affected individual. "Environment" might have been a better word. For example, under "behaviour" or "environment" as opposed to "medication", I include the poor conditions in public schools, the poor quality of food, the addicting quality of television, internet and computer games and the poor quality of many interpersonal relationships.
  - 9y ago

dx034 9y ago

What is most of the rest of the world? Most countries in Europe recognize it. International medical associations also recognize it. Are there countries where a psychiatrist would never diagnose ADHD?

isolli 9y ago
I think this is about adult ADHD.

falcolas 9y ago

Some quick video material about the belief that ADHD doesn't exist, and is not a treatable condition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tLi1bYilA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tLi1bYilA - informative and entertaining. But don't just take their word for it, have a look at the reference material in the video description. Another interesting, and emotional, view of the effect of not being on meds from the same artist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9qK8-sMGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9qK8-sMGQ