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"could easily be adapted to allow users to control their own data securely and simply" If you can solve the UX problems associated with those, you'll win a lot

"could easily be adapted to allow users to control their own data securely and simply" If you can solve the UX problems associated with those, you'll win a lot of praise. To be clear, even something as simple as contactless payment/transit cards are still too difficult for many people to manage. I had to physically take a wireless payment terminal out of a taxi driver's hands when he insisted on trying to do a contactless payment by taking the card in one hand, the reader in the other, and then as if he were playing a game of 'slap', slapping the credit card against the terminal and then immedidately pulling it back up and away. He repeated this several times, cursing each time the terminal displayed the message 'Read Error'. I've repeatedly seen people of all ages: try to press contactless cards against screens, wave cards back and forth at varying distances from the reader, and all manner of other behaviors. And we're talking with basic cards that have no option for input here. Key rotation that requires installing software, using a computer, etc - it's all going to be far too complex for many to understand.

tylersmith 9y ago
I am neither a UX nor hardware expert so that's all taken with what you called "optimism". Key rotation doesn't need to be so complex if the afore mentioned hardware devices are built correctly. Overall I hope security-absolutists like me can work with more socially in-touch people like you to build solutions that can become mainstream.
- will_hughes 9y ago
  I'm hardly socially in-touch. I just observe people's interaction with technology both at my job (Devops), and in the wider world. If you want to have some idea of the challenges - read reddit's Tales from Tech Support[1] subreddit. For a non-IT focus, the Just Rolled Into the Shop[2] subreddit has a similar theme - that people refuse to read instructions, educate themselves, or even listen to basic instructions on things. Better still - do a 'ride along' with someone who does hands-on IT support for a few weeks. I suspect the only way we will get it if Apple decides to make an ID platform that integrates with the iPhone. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/
  - tylersmith 9y ago
    I've done a fair amount of tech support in my career. The divide in our thoughts seems to be that I'm not thinking of a system that will be quickly popular and adopted, but rather one that is secure and eventually wins over users. Users may be reluctant but as they continue to suffer from data loss they'll slowly learn to use proper security regardless of the UX hurdles.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    [2] is basically an enthusiast sub and filled likewise filled with unrealistic expectations of normal people. The mechanical equivalent of "what kind of neanderthal doesn't run no-script?" [1] is better because it's real stories.

tylersmith 9y ago

I am neither a UX nor hardware expert so that's all taken with what you called "optimism". Key rotation doesn't need to be so complex if the afore mentioned hardware devices are built correctly. Overall I hope security-absolutists like me can work with more socially in-touch people like you to build solutions that can become mainstream.

will_hughes 9y ago
I'm hardly socially in-touch. I just observe people's interaction with technology both at my job (Devops), and in the wider world. If you want to have some idea of the challenges - read reddit's Tales from Tech Support[1] subreddit. For a non-IT focus, the Just Rolled Into the Shop[2] subreddit has a similar theme - that people refuse to read instructions, educate themselves, or even listen to basic instructions on things. Better still - do a 'ride along' with someone who does hands-on IT support for a few weeks. I suspect the only way we will get it if Apple decides to make an ID platform that integrates with the iPhone. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/
- tylersmith 9y ago
  I've done a fair amount of tech support in my career. The divide in our thoughts seems to be that I'm not thinking of a system that will be quickly popular and adopted, but rather one that is secure and eventually wins over users. Users may be reluctant but as they continue to suffer from data loss they'll slowly learn to use proper security regardless of the UX hurdles.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  [2] is basically an enthusiast sub and filled likewise filled with unrealistic expectations of normal people. The mechanical equivalent of "what kind of neanderthal doesn't run no-script?" [1] is better because it's real stories.