4 ms·

Out of curiosity, what should he have said to make it not seem like 'arrogance and disregard' to you?

by YooLi 16y ago

SwellJoe 16y ago
Oh, I dunno...I've really gotta think hard about that...Oh, wait! I've got it: "We're sorry. We made a mistake. We've corrected the design, and will repair/replace devices of impacted customers at no cost." Instead it sounds to me like he was really saying, "Other people make mistakes, and oh, I guess we're kinda like other people, so it's kinda like we might have made a mistake of some sort at some time, too, but not really. Those other phone makers make mistakes, though, you better believe it. Unlike us. We try to never make mistakes. Except maybe this one, whatever puny complaint you were talking about." Seriously, you don't see this as an arrogant response to a legitimate complaint about a very expensive product that is marketed as a superior product? We're talking about a several hundred dollar device, that Apple makes a tremendous profit on throughout the product's life. A good company would take actual responsibility for a flawed design. Apple somehow manages to be treated like a good company, while consistently treating its customers poorly. It's an amazing trick. Maybe it really is hypnosis.
- Goosey 16y ago
  Not hypnosis, just your friendly neighborhood reality distortion field http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=playe...
- andreyf 16y ago
  How about this: I know about 20 people who have iPhone 4's. None of them have any issues with the antenna, no matter how they hold the phone. This issues is hugely overblown, demonstrated by elementary arithmetic. These issues exist in very few phones, or maybe with very sweaty hands.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    A sample of 20 of your friends/acquaintances is neither statistically significant nor random.
    - KirinDave 16y ago
      And that'd matter a lot if people took product reviews from statistics. The iPhone is a phenomenon largely driven by word of mouth, and it always has been. Sure, it gets a ton of press and attention, but that sort of stuff doesn't move phones. If it did, many other phones would be moving more units. Look at how much money and time Verizon had to dump to make the Droid take off; we haven't seen a phone model even remotely as successful (as in units sold) from any vendor but Apple since that massive ad blitzkrieg. You see someone using an iPhone, you like it, you get one. Now everyone asks me, "Do you have an antenna problem?" I say, "No, it's been working much better for me." Then they go get one. Similarly, when I was considering an EVO someone came up to me and said, "Don't get an EVO, look at this terrible battery life." I backed off. Because phones play such a huge role in our daily lives, word-of-mouth and personal testimonial become very important. If Apple can preserve positive sentiment in its users, they will keep selling phones. Judging from their absurdly high sales numbers thus far, they're managing to keep the majority happy.
      - kelnos 16y ago
        Many people do follow a statistical/empirical approach when deciding whether or not to buy a particular product. If no one did, review companies like Consumer Reports wouldn't exist. The fact that many customers seem to drool over Apple products simply because of the Apple label is regrettable (for some reasons, not all), but not that surprising. (Hell, I love my MacBook Pro, even though I only run Linux on it. At present it'd take a lot to convince me to buy a non-Apple laptop. I won't go near the iPhone for software reasons, but that's another matter.)
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      Wait, what? You're calling someone out on anecdotal evidence compared to your, what? Bunch of blogs on the internet? The only hard data I've seen was from Apple and that had the problem at less than 1%. Were you being ironic on purpose?
- glhaynes 16y ago
  You appear to be operating according to this logical statement: "If it has a flaw, it can't be a superior product. It has a flaw. Thus it is not a superior product." This is sensible if we define "flaw" to include only issues that cause serious harm in using the product: those that make it lose a large portion of its value. For the vast majority of people, this isn't a "flaw" by that definition: it's instead a weakness caused by a specifically chosen engineering tradeoff that, all things considered, appears to have been a good one — the phone is thin, beautiful, strong, and has great battery and reception in almost all cases. To satisfy those for whom the issue's severity does rise to the level of legitimately being called a flaw, Apple announced that they're giving everyone a free case, which remedies this condition. And reminded customers that they're perfectly willing to give a complete refund. So what would have been better for them to do? Recall all iPhone 4s and replace them with a 3GS-style case that does better in that one situation but worse in essentially every other way? Most customers would pick the 4 any day of the week over the 3GS, "flawed" in one specific way or not.
  - SwellJoe 16y ago
    iPhone 4 has a number of shortcomings compared to several other products on the market. But we're not talking about that. This is not its only flaw, but the tech media is presenting it as a serious one...and one that is worse than prior versions of the phone. iPhone has always had a reputation for poor call quality and reliability. This isn't my assertion, but that of numerous reviewers. iPhone 4 makes one of those problems worse. If iPhone 4 doesn't drop calls more than other comparable smart phones, then I find it interesting that the tech media has suddenly gone rabid on Apple...it's rare for folks to criticize the quality of Apple products, even when there are valid criticisms to be made. I find it interesting that my comments have gone from several upvotes to several downvotes. I suspect it is because yours and a couple of other comments have reinterpreted my intent in ways that kinda resemble Jobs' own response to the problem. Diverting from the point. If there is an issue with dropped calls on the iPhone 4, the right thing to do would be own up to the problem. If there is no issue with dropped calls on the iPhone 4, the right thing to do would be to prove it, or at least give us a reason to believe that the people making the claims aren't credible. "So what would have been better for them to do? Recall all iPhone 4s and replace them with a 3GS-style case that does better in that one situation but worse in essentially every other way?" That's an interesting false dichotomy. The 3GS case is the only alternative case design possible for a phone? Was the 3GS particularly reliable with regard to dropped calls? (It's my understanding that iPhone has always had problems with dropped calls...but I don't follow this stuff very closely.)

Out of curiosity, what should he have said to make it not seem like 'arrogance and disregard' to you?

by YooLi 16y ago

Out of curiosity, what should he have said to make it not seem like 'arrogance and disregard' to you?

Oh, I dunno...I've really gotta think hard about that...Oh, wait! I've got it: "We're sorry. We made a mistake. We've corrected the design, and will repair/replace devices of impacted customers at no cost." Instead it sounds to me like he was really saying, "Other people make mistakes, and oh, I guess we're kinda like other people, so it's kinda like we might have made a mistake of some sort at some time, too, but not really. Those other phone makers make mistakes, though, you better believe it. Unlike us. We try to never make mistakes. Except maybe this one, whatever puny complaint you were talking about." Seriously, you don't see this as an arrogant response to a legitimate complaint about a very expensive product that is marketed as a superior product? We're talking about a several hundred dollar device, that Apple makes a tremendous profit on throughout the product's life. A good company would take actual responsibility for a flawed design. Apple somehow manages to be treated like a good company, while consistently treating its customers poorly. It's an amazing trick. Maybe it really is hypnosis.

Goosey 16y ago
Not hypnosis, just your friendly neighborhood reality distortion field http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=playe...
andreyf 16y ago
How about this: I know about 20 people who have iPhone 4's. None of them have any issues with the antenna, no matter how they hold the phone. This issues is hugely overblown, demonstrated by elementary arithmetic. These issues exist in very few phones, or maybe with very sweaty hands.
- kelnos 16y ago
  A sample of 20 of your friends/acquaintances is neither statistically significant nor random.
  - KirinDave 16y ago
    And that'd matter a lot if people took product reviews from statistics. The iPhone is a phenomenon largely driven by word of mouth, and it always has been. Sure, it gets a ton of press and attention, but that sort of stuff doesn't move phones. If it did, many other phones would be moving more units. Look at how much money and time Verizon had to dump to make the Droid take off; we haven't seen a phone model even remotely as successful (as in units sold) from any vendor but Apple since that massive ad blitzkrieg. You see someone using an iPhone, you like it, you get one. Now everyone asks me, "Do you have an antenna problem?" I say, "No, it's been working much better for me." Then they go get one. Similarly, when I was considering an EVO someone came up to me and said, "Don't get an EVO, look at this terrible battery life." I backed off. Because phones play such a huge role in our daily lives, word-of-mouth and personal testimonial become very important. If Apple can preserve positive sentiment in its users, they will keep selling phones. Judging from their absurdly high sales numbers thus far, they're managing to keep the majority happy.
    - kelnos 16y ago
      Many people do follow a statistical/empirical approach when deciding whether or not to buy a particular product. If no one did, review companies like Consumer Reports wouldn't exist. The fact that many customers seem to drool over Apple products simply because of the Apple label is regrettable (for some reasons, not all), but not that surprising. (Hell, I love my MacBook Pro, even though I only run Linux on it. At present it'd take a lot to convince me to buy a non-Apple laptop. I won't go near the iPhone for software reasons, but that's another matter.)
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Wait, what? You're calling someone out on anecdotal evidence compared to your, what? Bunch of blogs on the internet? The only hard data I've seen was from Apple and that had the problem at less than 1%. Were you being ironic on purpose?
glhaynes 16y ago
You appear to be operating according to this logical statement: "If it has a flaw, it can't be a superior product. It has a flaw. Thus it is not a superior product." This is sensible if we define "flaw" to include only issues that cause serious harm in using the product: those that make it lose a large portion of its value. For the vast majority of people, this isn't a "flaw" by that definition: it's instead a weakness caused by a specifically chosen engineering tradeoff that, all things considered, appears to have been a good one — the phone is thin, beautiful, strong, and has great battery and reception in almost all cases. To satisfy those for whom the issue's severity does rise to the level of legitimately being called a flaw, Apple announced that they're giving everyone a free case, which remedies this condition. And reminded customers that they're perfectly willing to give a complete refund. So what would have been better for them to do? Recall all iPhone 4s and replace them with a 3GS-style case that does better in that one situation but worse in essentially every other way? Most customers would pick the 4 any day of the week over the 3GS, "flawed" in one specific way or not.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  iPhone 4 has a number of shortcomings compared to several other products on the market. But we're not talking about that. This is not its only flaw, but the tech media is presenting it as a serious one...and one that is worse than prior versions of the phone. iPhone has always had a reputation for poor call quality and reliability. This isn't my assertion, but that of numerous reviewers. iPhone 4 makes one of those problems worse. If iPhone 4 doesn't drop calls more than other comparable smart phones, then I find it interesting that the tech media has suddenly gone rabid on Apple...it's rare for folks to criticize the quality of Apple products, even when there are valid criticisms to be made. I find it interesting that my comments have gone from several upvotes to several downvotes. I suspect it is because yours and a couple of other comments have reinterpreted my intent in ways that kinda resemble Jobs' own response to the problem. Diverting from the point. If there is an issue with dropped calls on the iPhone 4, the right thing to do would be own up to the problem. If there is no issue with dropped calls on the iPhone 4, the right thing to do would be to prove it, or at least give us a reason to believe that the people making the claims aren't credible. "So what would have been better for them to do? Recall all iPhone 4s and replace them with a 3GS-style case that does better in that one situation but worse in essentially every other way?" That's an interesting false dichotomy. The 3GS case is the only alternative case design possible for a phone? Was the 3GS particularly reliable with regard to dropped calls? (It's my understanding that iPhone has always had problems with dropped calls...but I don't follow this stuff very closely.)