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I wish it was that simple. Technology isn't inevitable but to the extent that we wan't to reap the benefits of it is. In other word, we aren't designing anythi

I wish it was that simple. Technology isn't inevitable but to the extent that we wan't to reap the benefits of it is. In other word, we aren't designing anything other than our own replacements. With regards to how SV tries to paint it thats a different discussion and have nothing to do with whether it will happen or not. It doesn't have to be dystopian (ex. Post scarcity society) but until we get there it's going to be worse not better for a lot of people. But I would challenge you to come up with an alternative that by and large at least compete with the reliance on technology. The problem is that no specific part of the whole system is responsible and everyone in the system is more or less acting rationally. So I fundamentally disagree it's not inevitable (with the above context considered)

Mz 9y ago
But I would challenge you to come up with an alternative Actually, I have. I was homeless for nearly six years until earlier this month. I am medically handicapped and can't work a regular job. I was a homemaker for a lot of years, I had a corporate job for a few years and I currently do freelance writing, resume editing and I blog, which gets me a little money via ads, tips and Patreon. UBI will solve nothing as long as we do not have universal basic health care and affordable housing. If we establish universal basic health care and create sufficient affordable housing, then the last piece of the puzzle is redistributing work. We did this once before under very similar circumstances where automation was "taking our jobs." It was called The Industrial Revolution. It gave birth to the 40 hour work week, overtime pay and unions. If work is structured properly and you can get a cheap SRO or similar somewhere and not have to worry about medical bills, you can cover your basic living expenses working part time. If it is well structured where you work as little or as much as you want, then people who are unambitious hedonists or who have personal burdens, like chronic health issues, can just get by without it being a dystopian horrifying black hole that seems inescapable. Folks with more energy and/or more ambition can work harder and do more with their lives. I have written a number of pieces laying out the details. Some are listed on this page of my old blog: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/p/ir2.html http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/p/ir2.html But I don't imagine you are actually interested. That "challenge" was most likely intended to mean "Shut up. It isn't like you have a solution."
- ThomPete 9y ago
  You are assuming an awful lot of things about me. Why would I challenge you if I wasn't intersted in what you had to say? You completely ignore that there is no need to structure work if I don't have to hire people to produce or develop my products. This is the whole point and why I believe you are fundamentally looking at this wrong. The industrial revolution replaced physical work, this revolution is replacing intellectual work. You are betting on some political/ideological/moral change in people, not actually addressing the points I was making.
  - Mz 9y ago
    And, yet, your out of hand dismissal fits very well with my assumption that you aren't actually interested in hearing a solution other than UBI. I am not betting on a political, ideological or moral change. Whether we establish a UBI or go with something akin to my above proposals, these are equally political solutions. Neither will happen without a great many people working to make it happen. The only question is what kind of future do we want? I think UBI makes no sense and will not work. Universal basic health care would be vastly easier to implement, if only because it has already be done in multiple other countries, so we have models to borrow from. Yet, people think that is a bridge too far and will not happen. So, to me, the good news is that UBI is unlikely to happen and Gig Work is already on the rise, such as Uber, writing services and delivery services. The challenge here is just getting the word out that such services need to be a win-win scenario for both company and workers. I am already living this reality. Gig Work has been an ideal solution in the face of a medical situation that makes a normal job not work for me. So, I know firsthand that Gig Work can be a terrific option for the worker if it isn't designed to screw over the little guy. That can totally coexist alongside factories with very few workers. The rise of the machines does not have to be a terrible thing for humanity. The Industrial Revolution raised standards of living and quality of life across the board. There is no reason The Second Industrial Revolution cannot do the same. But we do need to set that as a goal and work towards it. My only real concern is that, currently, some very rich and powerful people do not see the 99 percent as actual human beings. They see them as sheeple. And the solutions that grow out of such contempt tend to be self fulfilling prophesies that force powerless people into the narrative imposed on them from high.

Mz 9y ago

But I would challenge you to come up with an alternative Actually, I have. I was homeless for nearly six years until earlier this month. I am medically handicapped and can't work a regular job. I was a homemaker for a lot of years, I had a corporate job for a few years and I currently do freelance writing, resume editing and I blog, which gets me a little money via ads, tips and Patreon. UBI will solve nothing as long as we do not have universal basic health care and affordable housing. If we establish universal basic health care and create sufficient affordable housing, then the last piece of the puzzle is redistributing work. We did this once before under very similar circumstances where automation was "taking our jobs." It was called The Industrial Revolution. It gave birth to the 40 hour work week, overtime pay and unions. If work is structured properly and you can get a cheap SRO or similar somewhere and not have to worry about medical bills, you can cover your basic living expenses working part time. If it is well structured where you work as little or as much as you want, then people who are unambitious hedonists or who have personal burdens, like chronic health issues, can just get by without it being a dystopian horrifying black hole that seems inescapable. Folks with more energy and/or more ambition can work harder and do more with their lives. I have written a number of pieces laying out the details. Some are listed on this page of my old blog: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/p/ir2.html http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/p/ir2.html But I don't imagine you are actually interested. That "challenge" was most likely intended to mean "Shut up. It isn't like you have a solution."

ThomPete 9y ago
You are assuming an awful lot of things about me. Why would I challenge you if I wasn't intersted in what you had to say? You completely ignore that there is no need to structure work if I don't have to hire people to produce or develop my products. This is the whole point and why I believe you are fundamentally looking at this wrong. The industrial revolution replaced physical work, this revolution is replacing intellectual work. You are betting on some political/ideological/moral change in people, not actually addressing the points I was making.
- Mz 9y ago
  And, yet, your out of hand dismissal fits very well with my assumption that you aren't actually interested in hearing a solution other than UBI. I am not betting on a political, ideological or moral change. Whether we establish a UBI or go with something akin to my above proposals, these are equally political solutions. Neither will happen without a great many people working to make it happen. The only question is what kind of future do we want? I think UBI makes no sense and will not work. Universal basic health care would be vastly easier to implement, if only because it has already be done in multiple other countries, so we have models to borrow from. Yet, people think that is a bridge too far and will not happen. So, to me, the good news is that UBI is unlikely to happen and Gig Work is already on the rise, such as Uber, writing services and delivery services. The challenge here is just getting the word out that such services need to be a win-win scenario for both company and workers. I am already living this reality. Gig Work has been an ideal solution in the face of a medical situation that makes a normal job not work for me. So, I know firsthand that Gig Work can be a terrific option for the worker if it isn't designed to screw over the little guy. That can totally coexist alongside factories with very few workers. The rise of the machines does not have to be a terrible thing for humanity. The Industrial Revolution raised standards of living and quality of life across the board. There is no reason The Second Industrial Revolution cannot do the same. But we do need to set that as a goal and work towards it. My only real concern is that, currently, some very rich and powerful people do not see the 99 percent as actual human beings. They see them as sheeple. And the solutions that grow out of such contempt tend to be self fulfilling prophesies that force powerless people into the narrative imposed on them from high.