4 ms·

They would probably pick something more secure than the government did, considering they have a vested interest in not succumbing to fraud.

dragontamer 9y ago
> not succumbing to fraud. Erm... that's the entire fucking point of Experian. And yet they failed. Experian is a free-market for-profit corporation.
- vec 9y ago
  No, the entire point of Experian et al is to reduce the number of loans that can't be collected on for any reason, including but not limited to fraud. Assume a credit rating agency can lower a lender's default rate from X% to X'% but introduces an additional Y% of fraudulent loans. If X - X' > Y, that's a good deal for lenders no matter what the absolute size of Y is.
- lend000 9y ago
  If the government already chose a 9-digit 'secret' number that can be used to pay taxes and get tax refunds and do pretty much any other sensitive communication, is it the onus of private industry to supersede it? Experian failed, but the system was designed to fail. You can already get all of this important info with this number, so there was little incentive to create a new system and ensure that every American participated in it. Their operation was also entrenched by government credit reporting acts, pretty much setting in stone how things are and preventing innovation. This was a pseudo-government 'industry', not a free market system with new startups frequently joining.
  - dragontamer 9y ago
    Last I checked, the US Government requires: * Government Issued IDs -- Most situations. Police Tickets, Court issues, etc. etc. Usually your driver's license. This is effectively a security token, since its illegal to make illegitimate copies of a Government issued ID (although cryptography should be used in future ID efforts IMO) * Tax PIN number and Last year's tax refund -- Pay taxes and do tax refunds. There's a ton of OTHER information you need to submit with your taxes to get it processed. The SSN is purely the "username" for your taxes, it isn't the "password". ---- In the free market? People use SSN as a password, because free market doesn't give a care about you or decent security practices. Or at least, Experian doesn't (and they're a free market actor)
    - lend000 9y ago
      > Tax PIN number and Last year's tax refund -- Pay taxes and do tax refunds For individuals, your TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) defaults to your SSN, and you do not need the previous year's return to file taxes. Not sure where you are coming up with these imaginative claims, and I find it somewhat concerning how confident you feel in bureaucratic design decisions.
      - dragontamer 9y ago
        https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-request https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-reques...
        lend000 9y ago
        (Your link is only for e-filing.) Millions of returns are still processed via mail.
- ksenzee 9y ago
  Do you mean Equifax? I'm having a hard time keeping Equifax, Experian, and Expedia straight. And poor Expedia didn't even do anything to deserve my confusing them with those other two.
audeyisaacs 9y ago
>They would probably pick something more secure than the government did The government did NOT pick SSN's for ID. SSN cards used to have 'not to be used for identification purposes'. It was the private sector that appropriated SSN's as ID's. What the government failed in is adequately prohibiting and enforcing a prohibition of this type of use.
- lend000 9y ago
  So the private sector picked the default Taxpayer Identification Number the IRS uses? I find that dubious at best.

dragontamer 9y ago

> not succumbing to fraud. Erm... that's the entire fucking point of Experian. And yet they failed. Experian is a free-market for-profit corporation.

vec 9y ago
No, the entire point of Experian et al is to reduce the number of loans that can't be collected on for any reason, including but not limited to fraud. Assume a credit rating agency can lower a lender's default rate from X% to X'% but introduces an additional Y% of fraudulent loans. If X - X' > Y, that's a good deal for lenders no matter what the absolute size of Y is.
lend000 9y ago
If the government already chose a 9-digit 'secret' number that can be used to pay taxes and get tax refunds and do pretty much any other sensitive communication, is it the onus of private industry to supersede it? Experian failed, but the system was designed to fail. You can already get all of this important info with this number, so there was little incentive to create a new system and ensure that every American participated in it. Their operation was also entrenched by government credit reporting acts, pretty much setting in stone how things are and preventing innovation. This was a pseudo-government 'industry', not a free market system with new startups frequently joining.
- dragontamer 9y ago
  Last I checked, the US Government requires: * Government Issued IDs -- Most situations. Police Tickets, Court issues, etc. etc. Usually your driver's license. This is effectively a security token, since its illegal to make illegitimate copies of a Government issued ID (although cryptography should be used in future ID efforts IMO) * Tax PIN number and Last year's tax refund -- Pay taxes and do tax refunds. There's a ton of OTHER information you need to submit with your taxes to get it processed. The SSN is purely the "username" for your taxes, it isn't the "password". ---- In the free market? People use SSN as a password, because free market doesn't give a care about you or decent security practices. Or at least, Experian doesn't (and they're a free market actor)
  - lend000 9y ago
    > Tax PIN number and Last year's tax refund -- Pay taxes and do tax refunds For individuals, your TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) defaults to your SSN, and you do not need the previous year's return to file taxes. Not sure where you are coming up with these imaginative claims, and I find it somewhat concerning how confident you feel in bureaucratic design decisions.
    - dragontamer 9y ago
      https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-request https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-reques...
      - lend000 9y ago
        (Your link is only for e-filing.) Millions of returns are still processed via mail.
ksenzee 9y ago
Do you mean Equifax? I'm having a hard time keeping Equifax, Experian, and Expedia straight. And poor Expedia didn't even do anything to deserve my confusing them with those other two.

audeyisaacs 9y ago

>They would probably pick something more secure than the government did The government did NOT pick SSN's for ID. SSN cards used to have 'not to be used for identification purposes'. It was the private sector that appropriated SSN's as ID's. What the government failed in is adequately prohibiting and enforcing a prohibition of this type of use.

lend000 9y ago
So the private sector picked the default Taxpayer Identification Number the IRS uses? I find that dubious at best.