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This assumes people will enjoy a 5 year vacation though. In Norway if you're chronically disabled you can apply for something that seems very similar to basic i

This assumes people will enjoy a 5 year vacation though. In Norway if you're chronically disabled you can apply for something that seems very similar to basic income. I'm in that system and in my experience most of the people I know in this system are bored. It could be because all their friends are working so it's difficult to meet new people, there's also that this system is for disabled people and people with mental issues could find it difficult to meet other people, etc. I remember working somewhere where I was being tested before getting into this system and I met plenty who said they were heavily advised not to go back to work by their doctors. They want to do /something/ because being at home watching TV gets boring after half a year. So they were sent to that place in the meantime. I have other friends who are in this system who end up working in charity somewhere. But most of my friends i met in this system ended up finding a job, despite being promised permanent "universal income". In the past if you tried to work somewhere while being in this system, and it worked but you got sick again you'd have to reapply (which is a very long process) but now it's changed so it acts more as a safety net in case working somewhere doesn't work out for your health. I've heard this is to encourage people to work and I've heard (from the people who work in the system) that it's successful so far.

jacalata 9y ago
This doesn't assume they'll take a 5 year vacation at all. It's the difference between deciding to become an artist because you know you'll never worry about money, and deciding to study accounting so you can eventually have an accounting job you don't care about that will support your evening art practice.
- eanzenberg 9y ago
  Most will take a 5 year vacation.
  - vorotato 9y ago
    They said without any research backing their statement whatsoever...
    - eanzenberg 9y ago
      It's common sense if you have any interaction with US society. Not every common sense thing needs to be verified by a costly scientific study. Though some researchers try.
      - s73ver_ 9y ago
        Plenty of things that people think are "common sense" are far from it. If you want to make a assertion such that you have, you'll have to have evidence.
      - Larrikin 9y ago
        It's commonly said to be common sense to justify cutting and severely restricting social programs, but rarely with supporting evidence of widespread abuse. Usually just small amounts.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - Cerium 9y ago
    In my experience it is hard to take a 3 week vacation without coming across an idea which "I would do if I had more time". I bet some interesting results will come out of this research even if every single person starts their 5 years with a vacation.
  - Frondo 9y ago
    Maybe you would, and you know what? Good for you if you do. Just about everyone I know would start a business, volunteer, do creative things, contribute to making the world a better place. But, at the end of the day, I don't care how people spend their time or their money. If some fraction of the population wanted to bum around on their minimal UBI for the rest of their lives, fine by me. It's never going to lead to a life of luxury, and I quite honestly don't care if that's how they want to waste their lives.
    - hossbeast 9y ago
      If you don't care at all, then why are you okay financing that situation with your taxes?
      - mathgeek 9y ago
        This argument has no foundation in logic. There is a subset of people who are fine with paying those taxes and do not care how the intermediary recipients of those funds spend them.
      - Frondo 9y ago
        Shit, man. If "financing things I don't like with my taxes" is the hill I'm going to die on, I'm going to set my sights on the insane military budget we use to turn far-away countries into toilets and parking lots. Funding my fellow countrymen who want to squander their lives, so long as they're doing so peacefully and in the privacy of their own homes? Sign. me. up.
      - jacalata 9y ago
        Because all they care about is that people are given the opportunity? Your question is a complete non sequiter.
      - keymone 9y ago
        because of the multitude of positive effects it has on society that i live in. less depression, less poverty, less risky or criminal behavior, more economic activity, better educators, better medical care workers. this list can go on forever.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
gwatch 9y ago
This goes on to prove that man needs a purpose to be happy. A job gives a purpose. Universal basic income is nothing new. Saudi Arabia already has universal basic income, and people are not happy, and after a long period of laziness, they are unwilling and unable to go back to work, and worse -- they are prone to be attracted to terrorism. Free money, by and large, in a majority of cases, will kill a man's soul.
majewsky 9y ago
> But most of my friends i met in this system ended up finding a job, despite being promised permanent "universal income". So this experience stands against one of the most common arguments against basic income, "nobody is going to work anymore". It validates my belief that people will still seek purpose (and monetary rewards) even when their basic needs are fulfilled. > I've heard this is to encourage people to work and I've heard (from the people who work in the system) that it's successful so far. Always good to hear of policy that's actually working. At times, watching the news makes it feel like all of politics is just a smoke and mirrors game without any positive outcomes.
- fujiters 9y ago
  I feel like we already have tons of examples of people not really working for the money. CEOs of major companies typically have more than enough saved to just live indefinitely off the returns of that money. And yet, they don't.
- christophilus 9y ago
  Yeah. Open source software also kind of demonstrates this. Solving problems and producing value for others is a powerful motivator in itself.
- CapsAdmin 9y ago
  While I'm hoping to see this system work I'm not sure if it will and whatnot. It's great to see research for it and maybe they can study some existing systems as well. I feel a lot of people on here want to be or are already an entrepreneur. So of course your friends are most likely gonna start a business if they had the time, opportunity and safety net. But maybe that's enough? Another thing I hear a lot from people in this system is saying they wish they had more money and wish they could do something to earn more. (But then again I think this is always the case) The money we get is based on some average income. It's enough to pay the rent for an apartment, save up a little to buy a TV, maybe even a trip to another country if you're careful, etc. I don't think it's enough to own a car, buy a house, have kids, etc. To live that kind of "dream" you need to find a full time job. Which sounds fair within the UBI context but maybe unfair if you're disabled. (I personally don't know, my own life is more than good at the moment) I should have mentioned that there's a social stigma with not working (at least in Norway). Many of my disabled friends are not very open about it because they think it's embarrassing. I have one friend who choose to work at charity-ish place just so he can say he's working. He's 40 years old though and I believe the stigma was much stronger back in the past. Personally if people ask what I'm doing I tell them that I'm disabled but I like programming, making music and so on. I've never had anyone react negatively to this, but this is face to face, first time we meet, and maybe the non disabled people I meet have similar mindset as me. (programmers, freelancers, artists, etc) The friends I have who are disabled is another friend circle entirely. So I don't experience the stigma but I can imagine there are some people who don't like it of course. It's just that I don't hang around those people. But this stigma could be an important factor as to why people want to work. I feel like I'm talking for https://www.nav.no https://www.nav.no (the system in Norway I'm talking about). Maybe they have more useful (and more accurate) data for the people who research UBI.

jacalata 9y ago

This doesn't assume they'll take a 5 year vacation at all. It's the difference between deciding to become an artist because you know you'll never worry about money, and deciding to study accounting so you can eventually have an accounting job you don't care about that will support your evening art practice.

eanzenberg 9y ago
Most will take a 5 year vacation.
- vorotato 9y ago
  They said without any research backing their statement whatsoever...
  - eanzenberg 9y ago
    It's common sense if you have any interaction with US society. Not every common sense thing needs to be verified by a costly scientific study. Though some researchers try.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      Plenty of things that people think are "common sense" are far from it. If you want to make a assertion such that you have, you'll have to have evidence.
    - Larrikin 9y ago
      It's commonly said to be common sense to justify cutting and severely restricting social programs, but rarely with supporting evidence of widespread abuse. Usually just small amounts.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Cerium 9y ago
  In my experience it is hard to take a 3 week vacation without coming across an idea which "I would do if I had more time". I bet some interesting results will come out of this research even if every single person starts their 5 years with a vacation.
- Frondo 9y ago
  Maybe you would, and you know what? Good for you if you do. Just about everyone I know would start a business, volunteer, do creative things, contribute to making the world a better place. But, at the end of the day, I don't care how people spend their time or their money. If some fraction of the population wanted to bum around on their minimal UBI for the rest of their lives, fine by me. It's never going to lead to a life of luxury, and I quite honestly don't care if that's how they want to waste their lives.
  - hossbeast 9y ago
    If you don't care at all, then why are you okay financing that situation with your taxes?
    - mathgeek 9y ago
      This argument has no foundation in logic. There is a subset of people who are fine with paying those taxes and do not care how the intermediary recipients of those funds spend them.
    - Frondo 9y ago
      Shit, man. If "financing things I don't like with my taxes" is the hill I'm going to die on, I'm going to set my sights on the insane military budget we use to turn far-away countries into toilets and parking lots. Funding my fellow countrymen who want to squander their lives, so long as they're doing so peacefully and in the privacy of their own homes? Sign. me. up.
    - jacalata 9y ago
      Because all they care about is that people are given the opportunity? Your question is a complete non sequiter.
    - keymone 9y ago
      because of the multitude of positive effects it has on society that i live in. less depression, less poverty, less risky or criminal behavior, more economic activity, better educators, better medical care workers. this list can go on forever.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

gwatch 9y ago

This goes on to prove that man needs a purpose to be happy. A job gives a purpose. Universal basic income is nothing new. Saudi Arabia already has universal basic income, and people are not happy, and after a long period of laziness, they are unwilling and unable to go back to work, and worse -- they are prone to be attracted to terrorism. Free money, by and large, in a majority of cases, will kill a man's soul.

majewsky 9y ago

> But most of my friends i met in this system ended up finding a job, despite being promised permanent "universal income". So this experience stands against one of the most common arguments against basic income, "nobody is going to work anymore". It validates my belief that people will still seek purpose (and monetary rewards) even when their basic needs are fulfilled. > I've heard this is to encourage people to work and I've heard (from the people who work in the system) that it's successful so far. Always good to hear of policy that's actually working. At times, watching the news makes it feel like all of politics is just a smoke and mirrors game without any positive outcomes.

fujiters 9y ago
I feel like we already have tons of examples of people not really working for the money. CEOs of major companies typically have more than enough saved to just live indefinitely off the returns of that money. And yet, they don't.
christophilus 9y ago
Yeah. Open source software also kind of demonstrates this. Solving problems and producing value for others is a powerful motivator in itself.
CapsAdmin 9y ago
While I'm hoping to see this system work I'm not sure if it will and whatnot. It's great to see research for it and maybe they can study some existing systems as well. I feel a lot of people on here want to be or are already an entrepreneur. So of course your friends are most likely gonna start a business if they had the time, opportunity and safety net. But maybe that's enough? Another thing I hear a lot from people in this system is saying they wish they had more money and wish they could do something to earn more. (But then again I think this is always the case) The money we get is based on some average income. It's enough to pay the rent for an apartment, save up a little to buy a TV, maybe even a trip to another country if you're careful, etc. I don't think it's enough to own a car, buy a house, have kids, etc. To live that kind of "dream" you need to find a full time job. Which sounds fair within the UBI context but maybe unfair if you're disabled. (I personally don't know, my own life is more than good at the moment) I should have mentioned that there's a social stigma with not working (at least in Norway). Many of my disabled friends are not very open about it because they think it's embarrassing. I have one friend who choose to work at charity-ish place just so he can say he's working. He's 40 years old though and I believe the stigma was much stronger back in the past. Personally if people ask what I'm doing I tell them that I'm disabled but I like programming, making music and so on. I've never had anyone react negatively to this, but this is face to face, first time we meet, and maybe the non disabled people I meet have similar mindset as me. (programmers, freelancers, artists, etc) The friends I have who are disabled is another friend circle entirely. So I don't experience the stigma but I can imagine there are some people who don't like it of course. It's just that I don't hang around those people. But this stigma could be an important factor as to why people want to work. I feel like I'm talking for https://www.nav.no https://www.nav.no (the system in Norway I'm talking about). Maybe they have more useful (and more accurate) data for the people who research UBI.