4 ms·

Yes just kick out the poor from the cities that are the center of their life: where they lived for their whole life, where friends and family live, where their

Yes just kick out the poor from the cities that are the center of their life: where they lived for their whole life, where friends and family live, where their job is, where they are active in clubs, where there are jobs and cultural offers.

thriftwy 9y ago
You can live in the city that is the center of your life as long as you want, provided you can pay rent. Once you can't pay your rent and apply for subsidies, naturally we should see where the compromise is. Otherwise you will not help yourself landing in the situation where X can fit in a city comfortably, but 10*X people consider the particular city the center of their life. What do we do?
- moultano 9y ago
  Build more housing. (Or rather, permit it to be built.)
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    It's outside of my control, as a tax payer, to force some city to build up. It's well inside of my control to demand that my taxes are not wasted on subsidies going directly to rent-seeking landlords in already economically overheated areas. I would prefer they go to underdeveloped areas and give more economic effect. This means that people asking for subsidies should be ready to shift away from the core.
    - moultano 9y ago
      You do if you live there. Vote pro housing candidates for city and regional government.
- asymmetric 9y ago
  People without much money shouldn't be forced to move out of neighbourhoods they call home just because they don't have money. Who said money should buy you the right to a life with strong social bonds? Some things, including the ones mentioned above, should not be on the market.
  - golergka 9y ago
    Why the hell not? This idea seems so alien to me I can't even begin to understand how someone can come up with "social bonds" as a reason to pay less for something.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    They should have bought some property instead of renting it out then. Augmented social bounds with economic ones.
    - legulere 9y ago
      People not being able to pay rent? They should simply buy property instead! Germany is traditionally a country with low personal wealth, low homeownership rates. On the other hand renting is relatively cheap. Most people simply cannot afford to buy property. Already in Nürnberg, which is the second biggest metropolitan area in Bavaria after Munich where the housing prices are around half of that of Munich people with normal wages struggle to be able to acquire a home.
      - thriftwy 9y ago
        > Germany is traditionally a country with low personal wealth, low homeownership rates So basically you are working like an ant, but with grasshopper's security[0]? Maybe it's time to change that? > On the other hand renting is relatively cheap. Not anymore now that winter is here! 0. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fables_(La_Fontaine,_tr._Wright)/The_Grasshopper_and_the_Ant https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fables_(La_Fontaine,_tr._Wrig...
    - gumby 9y ago
      Buying has its own problems, ranging from access to capital to reducing economic flexibility. In this thread the topic is not having to move but mor generally the problem is an inability to move. On the the US’s historical economic strengths was the ease with which people could move in order to find work. One major influence in the US is economic slowdown of the past decade or so comes from peoples inability to move to find work
golergka 9y ago
Why use force to kick them out? If they're concerned with their well-being, they'll move on their own. If not, why should we be?
alexasmyths 9y ago
The thing is - 'village life' in Europe can be amazing and very fulfilling, often a higher standard of living than those in the cities. 800 Euros is quite a lot for rent.
bartedinburgh 9y ago
I've left the center of my live in pursuit of a better job, and even though I earn above average wage, taxes & rent consume a huge chunk of it, because many people here live in subsidized housing. Is that more fair? Now I can either be poor in my home town (no good jobs) or poor in a big city, where my wage is largely consumed by high taxes and rent. Why do other people deserve a subsidized house but I don't? I want more disposable income too.
namlem 9y ago
Or do neither and deregulated housing policy like in Japan. That way developers will build higher density housing to meet demand. Yes, people love to talk shit about the tiny apartments in Tokyo, but that's how you keep prices down.

thriftwy 9y ago

You can live in the city that is the center of your life as long as you want, provided you can pay rent. Once you can't pay your rent and apply for subsidies, naturally we should see where the compromise is. Otherwise you will not help yourself landing in the situation where X can fit in a city comfortably, but 10*X people consider the particular city the center of their life. What do we do?

moultano 9y ago
Build more housing. (Or rather, permit it to be built.)
- thriftwy 9y ago
  It's outside of my control, as a tax payer, to force some city to build up. It's well inside of my control to demand that my taxes are not wasted on subsidies going directly to rent-seeking landlords in already economically overheated areas. I would prefer they go to underdeveloped areas and give more economic effect. This means that people asking for subsidies should be ready to shift away from the core.
  - moultano 9y ago
    You do if you live there. Vote pro housing candidates for city and regional government.
asymmetric 9y ago
People without much money shouldn't be forced to move out of neighbourhoods they call home just because they don't have money. Who said money should buy you the right to a life with strong social bonds? Some things, including the ones mentioned above, should not be on the market.
- golergka 9y ago
  Why the hell not? This idea seems so alien to me I can't even begin to understand how someone can come up with "social bonds" as a reason to pay less for something.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  They should have bought some property instead of renting it out then. Augmented social bounds with economic ones.
  - legulere 9y ago
    People not being able to pay rent? They should simply buy property instead! Germany is traditionally a country with low personal wealth, low homeownership rates. On the other hand renting is relatively cheap. Most people simply cannot afford to buy property. Already in Nürnberg, which is the second biggest metropolitan area in Bavaria after Munich where the housing prices are around half of that of Munich people with normal wages struggle to be able to acquire a home.
    - thriftwy 9y ago
      > Germany is traditionally a country with low personal wealth, low homeownership rates So basically you are working like an ant, but with grasshopper's security[0]? Maybe it's time to change that? > On the other hand renting is relatively cheap. Not anymore now that winter is here! 0. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fables_(La_Fontaine,_tr._Wright)/The_Grasshopper_and_the_Ant https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fables_(La_Fontaine,_tr._Wrig...
  - gumby 9y ago
    Buying has its own problems, ranging from access to capital to reducing economic flexibility. In this thread the topic is not having to move but mor generally the problem is an inability to move. On the the US’s historical economic strengths was the ease with which people could move in order to find work. One major influence in the US is economic slowdown of the past decade or so comes from peoples inability to move to find work

golergka 9y ago

Why use force to kick them out? If they're concerned with their well-being, they'll move on their own. If not, why should we be?

alexasmyths 9y ago

The thing is - 'village life' in Europe can be amazing and very fulfilling, often a higher standard of living than those in the cities. 800 Euros is quite a lot for rent.

bartedinburgh 9y ago

I've left the center of my live in pursuit of a better job, and even though I earn above average wage, taxes & rent consume a huge chunk of it, because many people here live in subsidized housing. Is that more fair? Now I can either be poor in my home town (no good jobs) or poor in a big city, where my wage is largely consumed by high taxes and rent. Why do other people deserve a subsidized house but I don't? I want more disposable income too.

namlem 9y ago

Or do neither and deregulated housing policy like in Japan. That way developers will build higher density housing to meet demand. Yes, people love to talk shit about the tiny apartments in Tokyo, but that's how you keep prices down.