4 ms·

I haven't used Wire [1] in a long time because it didn't have a way to backup and restore conversations when switching devices (Signal behaves the same way too)

I haven't used Wire [1] in a long time because it didn't have a way to backup and restore conversations when switching devices (Signal behaves the same way too). But I do look at the release notes whenever the client is updated. Recently I was happy to see that Wire allowed up to three accounts to be configured in the client! I also like the fact that Wire doesn't need a phone number (unlike Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp and similar applications). You can sign up with an email address and use it. Of course, Wire is end-to-end encrypted, syncs across devices (unlike Signal) and has native^ multi-platform/multi-OS support where each device is independent and doesn't need the phone to be around (unlike Signal or WhatsApp). On the topic of open sourcing the server, it's a good move from the security audit point of view. But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. ^: As mentioned in a comment below, it's an Electron app, but I meant to indicate that there's an app that you can install for each platform without having more prerequisites (unlike Signal that requires Chrome/Chromium to be installed first). [1]: https://wire.com https://wire.com

jhasse 9y ago
> native multi-platform/multi-OS support Nope, just Electron.
- snaky 9y ago
  In 2017 "native" mean "Chromium built as a library and bundled into (every) executable".
  - stephenr 9y ago
    It really doesn't. Some people use it that way sure, but they're wrong. You can either help point it out when they make the claim or you can be a part of the problem.
    - snaky 9y ago
      sarcasm.jpg
nyordanov 9y ago
You can backup/restore Signal Desktop conversations from the Dev Tools console: `Whisper.Backup.backupToDirectory()` `Whisper.Backup.importFromDirectory()`
- newscracker 9y ago
  I can't do it on my phone though. And that's the device that might change after some time (years). AFAIK, Signal is coded explicitly to disallow backups of the data on iOS. Can't back it up with iTunes backup or on iCloud. I believe security was a reason (sacrificing UX deeply, IMO). I don't use Signal because of its comparatively poorer UX and feature set (the others I consider are Telegram and Wire). And without being able to backup conversations from an existing/old phone and restore them on a new phone, I'll never use it. I learned about this behavior the hard way during a previous switch and lost all my conversations (for some I had the patience to take screenshots).
sushimako 9y ago
> But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. Federation of self-hosted servers and the "official cloud" seems to be on Wire's road-map, cf: * Third paragraph of OP * https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/5vylls/wire_endtoend_encrypted_messaging_app_announced/de7lb72/?context=2 https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/5vylls/wire_end... * Last sentence on https://medium.com/@wireapp/open-sourcing-wire-server-code-ef7866a731d5 https://medium.com/@wireapp/open-sourcing-wire-server-code-e...
bubblethink 9y ago
>But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. What's the use case for self hosting ? Since it's supposed to be e2e, does self-hosting buy you anything ?
- zeveb 9y ago
  Depending on the details of the protocol, it might defend against certain patterns of traffic & contact analysis.
- Siimteller 9y ago
  It’s a requirement many organizations have - government institutions are a good example. Some might want to not leak any data to the outside world, run it only for internal use, etc.
16 9y ago
> But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. Have you not heard of https://matrix.org https://matrix.org? 100% open source server + client(s), decentralized, federated, easy to stand up your own server, end-to-end encryption, bridges to tons of other networks (IRC, telegram, slack, mattermost, etc), full history sync even when you log in from new devices, read receipts (even for individual users in group chats). They're by far (in my opinion) the most feature-rich of the "new-age" communication systems. I've been running my own homeserver for over a year now and I can't recommend it highly enough.
- newscracker 9y ago
  Thanks for the mention and the description of the features and benefits of Matrix. It sounds like music to my ears! I did hear about Matrix probably a year or two ago, but didn't think much of it at that time. I tend to look these up once every several months or so to see what's available and what improvements have happened. I'll have to check this out again.

jhasse 9y ago

> native multi-platform/multi-OS support Nope, just Electron.

snaky 9y ago
In 2017 "native" mean "Chromium built as a library and bundled into (every) executable".
- stephenr 9y ago
  It really doesn't. Some people use it that way sure, but they're wrong. You can either help point it out when they make the claim or you can be a part of the problem.
  - snaky 9y ago
    sarcasm.jpg

nyordanov 9y ago

You can backup/restore Signal Desktop conversations from the Dev Tools console: `Whisper.Backup.backupToDirectory()` `Whisper.Backup.importFromDirectory()`

newscracker 9y ago
I can't do it on my phone though. And that's the device that might change after some time (years). AFAIK, Signal is coded explicitly to disallow backups of the data on iOS. Can't back it up with iTunes backup or on iCloud. I believe security was a reason (sacrificing UX deeply, IMO). I don't use Signal because of its comparatively poorer UX and feature set (the others I consider are Telegram and Wire). And without being able to backup conversations from an existing/old phone and restore them on a new phone, I'll never use it. I learned about this behavior the hard way during a previous switch and lost all my conversations (for some I had the patience to take screenshots).

sushimako 9y ago

> But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. Federation of self-hosted servers and the "official cloud" seems to be on Wire's road-map, cf: * Third paragraph of OP * https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/5vylls/wire_endtoend_encrypted_messaging_app_announced/de7lb72/?context=2 https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/5vylls/wire_end... * Last sentence on https://medium.com/@wireapp/open-sourcing-wire-server-code-ef7866a731d5 https://medium.com/@wireapp/open-sourcing-wire-server-code-e...

bubblethink 9y ago

zeveb 9y ago
Depending on the details of the protocol, it might defend against certain patterns of traffic & contact analysis.
Siimteller 9y ago
It’s a requirement many organizations have - government institutions are a good example. Some might want to not leak any data to the outside world, run it only for internal use, etc.

16 9y ago

> But until any of these new age apps/platforms support federation and decentralized communication, there's not much use for the masses to look for servers run by specific people. Have you not heard of https://matrix.org https://matrix.org? 100% open source server + client(s), decentralized, federated, easy to stand up your own server, end-to-end encryption, bridges to tons of other networks (IRC, telegram, slack, mattermost, etc), full history sync even when you log in from new devices, read receipts (even for individual users in group chats). They're by far (in my opinion) the most feature-rich of the "new-age" communication systems. I've been running my own homeserver for over a year now and I can't recommend it highly enough.

newscracker 9y ago
Thanks for the mention and the description of the features and benefits of Matrix. It sounds like music to my ears! I did hear about Matrix probably a year or two ago, but didn't think much of it at that time. I tend to look these up once every several months or so to see what's available and what improvements have happened. I'll have to check this out again.