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This is a really cool piece of engineering, but I'm bothered by the idea that the going rate for a huge multinational corporation to get a prototype of a potent

This is a really cool piece of engineering, but I'm bothered by the idea that the going rate for a huge multinational corporation to get a prototype of a potentially extremely valuable technology is less than 10k of prize money [1], plus a "mini-drone race" and "snacks and food". Maybe it's just me, but I find this type of corporate-sponsored hackathon exploitative and distastefull. We're not talking about an event that is producing a social good in an area that is otherwise underinvested. This is purely profit-motivated, and ArcelorMittal can afford to pay a lot more for a prototype like this. 1. https://www.eventbrite.nl/e/the-arcelormittal-challenge-hack4steel-tickets-34228761146 https://www.eventbrite.nl/e/the-arcelormittal-challenge-hack...

ak39 9y ago
I'm with you on this. I can't imagine any other complex discipline where experts offer their time & creativity to the lowest bidder so quickly. Programming seems uniquely generous in this regard. Or stupid.
onebonsai 9y ago
Thanks for your view. However, it is important to see this event also for what it is. It is a way for Arcelor to think out-of-the-box, and get input from people that are not directly linked to their business. Secondly, it is a way for students to get a glimps of what the corporate projects and challenges are. Additionally, for us, as professionals, it is a way to show, although in a very rough fashion, what is possible, and where we can help. We saw this event more as a team building than work. The result we got at the hackathon is a very rough prototype, not a finished product. In no way, this can directly be implemented on the floor. As such, input from experts is still required, either us, or other experts in the field. Therefore, these hackathons are useful, in my opinion, not only to the company, but also the participants :)
- csmattryder 9y ago
  > It is a way for Arcelor to think out-of-the-box, and get input from people that are not directly linked to their business. And there's nothing wrong with that, so much so, that we created a title for these people: Consultant. They're highly paid, and available to bring years of domain experience to a business. How much value did ArcellorMittal get in exchange for 8.5k and some pizza? How much would <leading AR firm> charge, in comparison? (Man, programmers desperately need someone to tell them that no, not everyone just "gets" programming. You have a skill, charge for it!)
- corford 9y ago
  Really agree with this. Not everything is about money, if it was we wouldn't have squid, postfix, apache, nodejs, python and the millions of other open source software that I and everyone else here relies on daily. Ask the maintainer of GnuPG if he was ever given $10K by a company (prior to the Linux Foundation's Core Infrastructure Initiative grant).
  - peterbonney 9y ago
    This is the distinction I was getting at - something like GnuPG provides tremendous value to society as a whole. Saving ArcelorMittal some money in its manufacturing process doesn't benefit anyone except ArcelorMittal's executives and stockholders. So I stand by my point. There's no doubt the participants got a lot out of this Hackathon, but I'd wager that ArcelorMittal got significantly more.
    - corford 9y ago
      I see your point but I assume the producers of the hack own the rights and IP to their work i.e. there's nothing stopping them releasing what they did as open source and building a community around it (at least that's been the case with every hackathon I've ever participated in). If the above assumption is true then I don't see the problem. ArcelorMittal get some buzz and maybe some ideas to pursue, the hackers get a fully paid fun weekend and a little cash for their efforts, society potentially benefits from the seeds that were planted.
  - valesco 9y ago
    Oh but this was about money. Saving money for a multinational corporation that crushed its rivals in Europe. Nice job.
dceddia 9y ago
I agree. While I understand the OP's point that it's a valuable experience for the team, a glimpse into solving real problems, it's not a finished product, etc., I still think ArcelorMittal captures the bulk of the value here. They had 70 teams competing. The team in the article had 5 members working for 36 hours, with 3 hours of sleep. Let's say the team members would fetch $150k/year. $75/hr. 5 people, 33 hours. $12,375. And there were 70 teams competing for $10k + snacks. On the flip side, how much does ArcelorMittal lose on a single failed weld? I would venture a guess it's well north of $10k.
- rmorm 9y ago
  Just to clarify, there were only ~15 teams, 70 is the number of contestants
yiyus 9y ago
For you, and I'd say the whole HN audience, it is quite obvious that spending money in an AI approach would be extremely useful. For a steel producer, this is not obvious at all, and consider it a long shot. I would even bet that the idea of whoever organized the hackaton was not to get free labor, but to prove to someone up there that AI can bring new interesting solutions. In view of the results, I'm quite sure they will be spending more in the future, maybe even starting a new department or a serious research program or something like that in the long term.
oh_sigh 9y ago
Why are you bothered by it? The 70 teams that joined the hackathon did it out of their own free will, and probably enjoyed it?

ak39 9y ago

I'm with you on this. I can't imagine any other complex discipline where experts offer their time & creativity to the lowest bidder so quickly. Programming seems uniquely generous in this regard. Or stupid.

onebonsai 9y ago

Thanks for your view. However, it is important to see this event also for what it is. It is a way for Arcelor to think out-of-the-box, and get input from people that are not directly linked to their business. Secondly, it is a way for students to get a glimps of what the corporate projects and challenges are. Additionally, for us, as professionals, it is a way to show, although in a very rough fashion, what is possible, and where we can help. We saw this event more as a team building than work. The result we got at the hackathon is a very rough prototype, not a finished product. In no way, this can directly be implemented on the floor. As such, input from experts is still required, either us, or other experts in the field. Therefore, these hackathons are useful, in my opinion, not only to the company, but also the participants :)

csmattryder 9y ago
> It is a way for Arcelor to think out-of-the-box, and get input from people that are not directly linked to their business. And there's nothing wrong with that, so much so, that we created a title for these people: Consultant. They're highly paid, and available to bring years of domain experience to a business. How much value did ArcellorMittal get in exchange for 8.5k and some pizza? How much would <leading AR firm> charge, in comparison? (Man, programmers desperately need someone to tell them that no, not everyone just "gets" programming. You have a skill, charge for it!)
corford 9y ago
Really agree with this. Not everything is about money, if it was we wouldn't have squid, postfix, apache, nodejs, python and the millions of other open source software that I and everyone else here relies on daily. Ask the maintainer of GnuPG if he was ever given $10K by a company (prior to the Linux Foundation's Core Infrastructure Initiative grant).
- peterbonney 9y ago
  This is the distinction I was getting at - something like GnuPG provides tremendous value to society as a whole. Saving ArcelorMittal some money in its manufacturing process doesn't benefit anyone except ArcelorMittal's executives and stockholders. So I stand by my point. There's no doubt the participants got a lot out of this Hackathon, but I'd wager that ArcelorMittal got significantly more.
  - corford 9y ago
    I see your point but I assume the producers of the hack own the rights and IP to their work i.e. there's nothing stopping them releasing what they did as open source and building a community around it (at least that's been the case with every hackathon I've ever participated in). If the above assumption is true then I don't see the problem. ArcelorMittal get some buzz and maybe some ideas to pursue, the hackers get a fully paid fun weekend and a little cash for their efforts, society potentially benefits from the seeds that were planted.
- valesco 9y ago
  Oh but this was about money. Saving money for a multinational corporation that crushed its rivals in Europe. Nice job.

dceddia 9y ago

I agree. While I understand the OP's point that it's a valuable experience for the team, a glimpse into solving real problems, it's not a finished product, etc., I still think ArcelorMittal captures the bulk of the value here. They had 70 teams competing. The team in the article had 5 members working for 36 hours, with 3 hours of sleep. Let's say the team members would fetch $150k/year. $75/hr. 5 people, 33 hours. $12,375. And there were 70 teams competing for $10k + snacks. On the flip side, how much does ArcelorMittal lose on a single failed weld? I would venture a guess it's well north of $10k.

rmorm 9y ago
Just to clarify, there were only ~15 teams, 70 is the number of contestants

yiyus 9y ago

For you, and I'd say the whole HN audience, it is quite obvious that spending money in an AI approach would be extremely useful. For a steel producer, this is not obvious at all, and consider it a long shot. I would even bet that the idea of whoever organized the hackaton was not to get free labor, but to prove to someone up there that AI can bring new interesting solutions. In view of the results, I'm quite sure they will be spending more in the future, maybe even starting a new department or a serious research program or something like that in the long term.

oh_sigh 9y ago

Why are you bothered by it? The 70 teams that joined the hackathon did it out of their own free will, and probably enjoyed it?